[Innova] Toro

[Muddyboots]

For me...the stamp is irrelevant. What is not though is a champ toro! Ordered and cant wait! Plus a super secret source of MF champ toros coming! Hoping they kick up the fade a notch vs star or champ glow.

You seem to feel like Innova is the originator of all good disc golf ideas, and have said as much in other threads. Is it fair to say that the Toro is one of several attempts at a Zone replica? This is an honest, non-loaded question, as I haven't even held a Toro.

 

[Shallows]

You seem to feel like Innova is the originator of all good disc golf ideas, and have said as much in other threads. Is it fair to say that the Toro is one of several attempts at a Zone replica? This is an honest, non-loaded question, as I haven't even held a Toro.

Doesn't feel or act like a zone at all, so not a good replica if that's what they're trying to do. I suppose it is a zone replica in as much as it's an OS 4 speed but they definitely designed the disc to fly differently.

 

[mboss302]

You seem to feel like Innova is the originator of all good disc golf ideas, and have said as much in other threads. Is it fair to say that the Toro is one of several attempts at a Zone replica? This is an honest, non-loaded question, as I haven't even held a Toro.

It flies more like a slower Justice than a Zone.

 

[@CD-]

For me...the stamp is irrelevant. What is not though is a champ toro! Ordered and cant wait! Plus a super secret source of MF champ toros coming! Hoping they kick up the fade a notch vs star or champ glow.

Its nice being able to get both stock Star and Champ at the same time, those pre-release CFR Star ones were a bit expensive. Let us know how the MF Luster Champ stability compares! I bet they will be very OS if they are stiff Luster blend.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

You seem to feel like Innova is the originator of all good disc golf ideas, and have said as much in other threads. Is it fair to say that the Toro is one of several attempts at a Zone replica? This is an honest, non-loaded question, as I haven't even held a Toro.

Manufacturer / Distributor Disc Model Approved Date
Innova Champion Discs Rhyno Nov 9, 1998
Innova Champion Discs Pig May 20, 2008
Discraft Zone May 28, 2008

Interesting timing isn't it? Anyway...if we are talking about making an OS or very OS approach disc/fast putter/slow mid...I only see the idea coming first from Innova based on the published approval dates...I would agree that until the Toro, Discraft executed the idea better though.

 

[Muddyboots]

What's interesting is the time period you chose to bold. Clearly 8 days is not enough time to R&D, design, source, have mold parts cut, and go into production. This is glossing over the fact that the Pig likely uses recycled parts, while the Zone seems to be unique. No interest in an argument here, and thanks to those who gave unloaded replies/opinions.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

The champ toro is very good. I dont think I agree with the +1 tho. 0 or .5 maybe. I like the stiffer feel of this champ material, but it still has some grip a tad of flex.

 

[@CD-]

Got my stock Toros in yesterday, both the Champion and Star blends feel very nice and high quality molding (minor flashing + solid coloring throughout). They feel just as good as the Color glow champion ones I have been throwing and I can't wait to try them out. Just missed a really windy weekend here in KC :\

 

[twistedraven]

I felt up a Toro in my local Pro shop the other day, and wasn't that bothered by the apparent plus rim it has. I'd totally get some Champion Color Glow ones if I wasn't already nose deep in Zones and Zone backups. The stack of Toros I saw were all consistently slightly puddle topped. They looked like a dream to throw.

 

[robdeforge]

Has anybody else found that the toro seems to be really not that OS when thrown at very low speeds? A couple of times at my local course I have tried to use the toro for a short approach shot (less than 100 feet) and so I throw it like 40% power. I'm relying on it to be as OS as normal but it seems to fly like a much less OS disc in this use case! wondering if I'm just imagining things or if anybody else has found this to be true too

 

[MTB3]

Has anybody else found that the toro seems to be really not that OS when thrown at very low speeds? A couple of times at my local course I have tried to use the toro for a short approach shot (less than 100 feet) and so I throw it like 40% power. I'm relying on it to be as OS as normal but it seems to fly like a much less OS disc in this use case! wondering if I'm just imagining things or if anybody else has found this to be true too

Wild speculation = the slight puddle tip has a fairly thin raised shoulder that could act like a spoiler. that reduces glide the harder its thrown. Essentially a very mild version of the stego design.

Could also be how the Toro expresses its overstability, by resisting torque and then dumping. It isn't going to fade hard laterally at any speed in my experience. I find the toro to stay relatively straight to dump at a wide range of speeds.

 

[robdeforge]

Wild speculation = the slight puddle tip has a fairly thin raised shoulder that could act like a spoiler. that reduces glide the harder its thrown. Essentially a very mild version of the stego design.

Could also be how the Toro expresses its overstability, by resisting torque and then dumping. It isn't going to fade hard laterally at any speed in my experience. I find the toro to stay relatively straight to dump at a wide range of speeds.

I like the way you're thinking. at least it makes me think there's something to what I've experienced and not just totally in my head (maybe)

 

[gammaxgoblin]

None of mine, color glow, star, champ have puddle tops and all fly as just described....flat to hard fade.

 

[Neil_Rankin]

My Star is a puddle top and it has less glide than any of my Gators including a Ring of Gators. Honestly it's a bit frustrating at times. At shorter distances it's great, easy to place with no skip, but it takes a lot to get it out to distances that my Gators achieve easily. I was hoping the Toro could fill all of my overstable, flick approach shots but either I need to add a Gator to the bag or start throwing Firebirds for those 250'ish approaches.

 

[@CD-]

All of mine have the little thumbtrack angled drop where the rim meets the flight plate.
Flight plates for each plastic blend:
-Color Glow is slightly puddle
-Stock Champions are flat (both Blue)
-Stars - slight dome for the blue USDGC stamp, Stock stamp are flat (White and light Blue)

Dave Dunipace on a short Innova video describing them as 'flat or slightly concave' https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PcnCKkCFCpo


I got out and threw my stock Champion and Star ones vs. the Color Glow tonight in lower wind conditions. Release angle makes a big difference for BH throws and release speed barely matters (same flight just slightly faster to the ground). FH the Toro holds up well to being overpowered and fights out of sloppy releases with OAT :\. All the plastics fly pretty similar but the slight puddle + softer plastic Color Glow seems to hold onto the flight a little more (hard to call it 'glide'). Going to need to practice some scramble shots/rollers to figure out how the Toro reacts in the situations I currently use my ROG Gator/Mortars and Rat for. Got some solid skip action when throwing them hard on line drives straight out and less when giving some air on anhyzer.

 

[ff33]

how are the champs next to star? guy told me star was more overstable but it was hard to bleieve, just based on any other disc being more overstable in champion plastic

 

[bnrstnkr]

New stock versions are listed at 4 2 1 3, rather than 4 2 0 4. Indicating what I've found to be true, it has more resistance to turn than low speed fade. Glad these got a stock release. About to put an order in!

 

[gammaxgoblin]

If a stego is +1/4 the toro is not +1/3. +1 turn describes stego and tilt...toro is a 0/3 or 0/4 by comparison. +1 turn means it will start to "fade" as soon as thrown...the toro doesn't do this.

 

[@CD-]

If thrown at a 4 speed appropriate release velocity I think the Toro will have the +1 high speed turn. I have to give mine a bit of anhyzer and overpower it to fly straight in the very short 'high speed' part of the flight. Innova currently has the Pig at 4/1/0/3.

 

[bnrstnkr]

If a stego is +1/4 the toro is not +1/3. +1 turn describes stego and tilt...toro is a 0/3 or 0/4 by comparison. +1 turn means it will start to "fade" as soon as thrown...the toro doesn't do this.

I agree that it isn't *that* stable - just saying these new numbers better describe the flight than before. Because 4 fade would make it seem like its spiking out like a firebird. They only use integer numbers, it can only be so detailed.

"It flies like a zone with less glide" is the most accurate way to say it, but they aren't going to mention the competition lol

I disagree that that's what "+1" turn rating means though. I would say 0 turn "does not turn" and +1 turn "highly resists turning".