Playing a tourney with your toddler

[McLovin]

I have a 3yo and a 12yo, both girls. I take them out for casual rounds all the time. And I have to say,I would much rather play a round with my 3yo than my 12yo. At least then I don't have have to hear constant complaining about how I drug her outside and off of her cell phone for a few hours. And as well behaved as my little one is (in public anyway) I would never ever consider taking her to a tourney with me.

 

[ilmcgee]

Discraft encourages players of all ages so it was all good in that event.

Yes, I know, but some still would have been uncomfortable having a kid in the group.

 

[corin_brown]

Hey all, would like to know what people think.

We just had a tournament. One of the competitions had their 2 year old toddler with them during their rounds who was not under full control some of the time. Some of the golfers in his groups over the weekend were not happy with this situation, but didn't mention anything until after the tournament had finished. The issue was raised with the competitor, a few days later and he thought discrimination might be involved if he was asked to leave his kid at home in the future. What do people think?? Suggestions??

The concept of bringing your toddler to a PDGA event is so stupid, I almost feel like we're being trolled with this scenario. The PDGA has well defined rules about player conduct during tournament play and about the conduct of other people attached to that player (caddies, aides, pets... infants, etc.)

Unsanctioned events are a different story. That's the problem with unsanctioned events - you generally pay less to play in an unsanctioned event and, like it or not, you generally have less of a leg to stand on when you want to complain to the TD about something that's bugging you. Where's the rule book for unsanctioned events? There is none. That's the problem.

I'd also like to say something about the players who didn't raise their objections to there being a toddler on their during the actual tournament but who waited to complain about the offending player and his toddler TWO days after the tournament: get over it. Whether it was a PDGA event or not, you can't whine about some rules infraction or courtesy violation after the tournament is finished and you've been back in the real world for TWO f***ing days. Waiting two days to complain about a courtesy violation in a tournament you played in might be as stupid as bringing a toddler to a tournament you were playing in. Citing rules and courtesy violations DURING PDGA tournaments is perfectly appropriate and correct. Saying nothing and waiting two days to do so is out of order. The cards are in, the tournament is over, you've been back at your job for half the week, get on with your life.

 

[VictorB]

The concept of bringing your toddler to a PDGA event is so stupid, I almost feel like we're being trolled with this scenario. The PDGA has well defined rules about player conduct during tournament play and about the conduct of other people attached to that player (caddies, aides, pets... infants, etc.)

I've seen it happen, in round 4 of a PDGA event, on the lead card in intermediate, in the middle of a hot summer day, with a <2 year old.

The other people on the card were very pissed. I would be too. I probably would let them know that there would be courtesy violations called whenever it was applicable.

So while it seems far fetched, it's not out of the realm of possibility, and lots of people don't see the big picture or think about how it would affect the other players on their card...or apparently take the time out to get proper child care when they are going to be playing in a tournament.

 

[scarpfish]

The concept of bringing your toddler to a PDGA event is so stupid, I almost feel like we're being trolled with this scenario. The PDGA has well defined rules about player conduct during tournament play and about the conduct of other people attached to that player (caddies, aides, pets... infants, etc.)

Unsanctioned events are a different story. That's the problem with unsanctioned events - you generally pay less to play in an unsanctioned event and, like it or not, you generally have less of a leg to stand on when you want to complain to the TD about something that's bugging you. Where's the rule book for unsanctioned events? There is none. That's the problem.

Last I checked, unsanctioned events still have a TD. As long as you can address your concerns to him/her, you have a leg to stand on.

I'd also like to say something about the players who didn't raise their objections to there being a toddler on their during the actual tournament but who waited to complain about the offending player and his toddler TWO days after the tournament: get over it. Whether it was a PDGA event or not, you can't whine about some rules infraction or courtesy violation after the tournament is finished and you've been back in the real world for TWO f***ing days. Waiting two days to complain about a courtesy violation in a tournament you played in might be as stupid as bringing a toddler to a tournament you were playing in.

Had it maybe occurred to you, many of the people at the event who were bothered by the toddler may not have been in the know that they were not alone in that assessment until after the event. Had it also maybe occurred that they didn't want to bring it up during the event because doing so would involve further aggravating the matter which isn't always conducive to keeping one's game on track.

Stating a grievance after the offending action occurred can't do much to resolve what happened, but it can do a lot to let the offending party know that its not cool for such a matter to occur in the future. God knows we've all come across someone whose child rearing practices seemed a little obtuse, or just had a brain fart moment when trying to balance his parental responsibility with his recreational time.

Citing rules and courtesy violations DURING PDGA tournaments is perfectly appropriate and correct. Saying nothing and waiting two days to do so is out of order. The cards are in, the tournament is over, you've been back at your job for half the week, get on with your life.

Which gives no one an outlet to vent, and just plants the seeds for such stuff to happen again. Stating objections at the time is best, but stating them late is always better than never stating them.

 

[filobedo]

Yes, I know, but some still would have been uncomfortable having a kid in the group.

Now that I think about it, I have played a tournament where childcare was provided (I think it was at the IDGC) by a volunteer which seemed a little odd to me as the children did not have much to do sitting in the lobby of the IDGC. This guy is probably the same person that takes screaming children to 6pm weddings although the invitation states, adults only ceremony and reception.

 

[corin_brown]

The other people on the card were very pissed. I would be too. I probably would let them know that there would be courtesy violations called whenever it was applicable.

So did this idiot's card mates call him on a courtesy violation? If not, that's their own fault. The TD also never should have allowed this guy to start the round. Where in this guy's bag did he stash his infant, next to his putters or his drivers?

 

[brutalbrutus]

I have actually dealt with this before but the kid was 6-8yrs and a poster child for ADHD. It was the first round at a local series event that was sanctioned for insurance purposes. I was in rec and the father was basically a novice level player. I remember getting 4's on the first two holes after getting a little upset as I watched them walk up to the first tee. Then I settled down put my blinders on and got into a groove. I shot my first 950 round and wound up getting my first win.

While it isn't cool to bring a young or a hyperactive child to a tourney, you don't have to let it get in your head either. It might have actually helped me on this particular day, since I was not focusing on my own mental issues on the course...

 

[Hyzenberg]

As a father of two girls (a 2 and 4 year old), I would never try this with either of them, for both mine and others sanity!

I tried doing field work with them which you think would be easy right? Give them some disc's let them fling them around, or hell even occupy them with the playground in ultra close vicinity of my field. WRONG! I maybe threw a handful of disc's before there was tears, fighting or toddlers just being toddlers. So put the bag back in the car and played on the playground. Happy munchkins = happy dad!

 

[JC17393]

So did this idiot's card mates call him on a courtesy violation? If not, that's their own fault. The TD also never should have allowed this guy to start the round. Where in this guy's bag did he stash his infant, next to his putters or his drivers?

Even if the TD saw that the kid was there, he can't bar the player from participating in the tournament, particularly if this was a PDGA event and the player was a PDGA member in good standing.

The TD can remind the player that he's solely responsible for the behavior of the kid and if the other players object to the kid's presence or his actions, then the player will have to deal with the consequences (warnings, penalties, complaints, dirty looks, etc).

The player, if he's a member in good standing, is absolutely entitled to play the tournament if there is space in the event and he pays his entry fee just like anyone else. He's not entitled to drag his kid along with him consequence-free, however.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

People are so stupid these days. Why do they create things from their loins if they suck at life themselves?!

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Players are responsible for their caddy's actions; unless and until the PDGA starts issuing official specator passes to players to hand out to their "crew" to distinguish them from random fanboy/girl who just showed up, they should not be responsible for their specators' actions since a player has no way of controlling or restricting the actions of a random fan who show up to watch/support him or her, e.g., if the incident involving the douchebag "photographer" who kept disrupting PMB's attempt to putt during the final 9 at the '15 Worlds had happened during the final 9 or playoff in 2014, should Ricky have been held responsible if the "photographer" claimed to be there to support Rickey?

I'll have to disagree. His child is an extension of him and he brought him along. Therefore he should be held liable for his actions. As in warnings and strokes if it came down to it.

 

[Pbmercil]

Call a courtesy violation Every time the kid gets out of line. The parent will rectify the situation one way or another before you know it. End of story.

I've played a tournament round with a young kid following the group. before and it was not a problem. But the dad was very clear from the get go that his son was well behaved and that if his kid were to interfere with play in any way just let him know. So it was fine.

 

[brandocommando9]

People are so stupid these days. Why do they create things from their loins if they suck at life themselves?!

Right.

How selfish can you be if ya can't get a sitter don't go to the tourney.

 

[corin_brown]

Even if the TD saw that the kid was there, he can't bar the player from participating in the tournament, particularly if this was a PDGA event and the player was a PDGA member in good standing.

Ok, by rule, the TD of a PDGA event can't keep a player in good standing from starting any round, but I was referring to the case of the player with a toddler under 2 yo. At what other point should a TD exercise extraordinary judgement than with an extraordinary situation like a player toting an 18 month old around during an A-tier?

 

[namar]

My 2 and 5 year old boys come along for plenty of casual rounds, but I would NEVER EVER EVER consider bringing either one of them to walk with me in a tournament I was trying to win. They are pretty well behaved kids (especially in public) and I have a reasonably strong mental game, but I tend to play average to gross DG when I have both kids with me, trying to keep them in snacks and whatnot. I can't imagine trying to keep a tourney focus while tracking a toddler the whole time. Sounds like a good way to throw away an entry fee.

There isn't a 2 year old on the planet that could maintain for an entire tourney day without disturbing at least one other competitor, and one is one too many.

Ace Race or something similar would be no problem, as they are short events and more geared to the grow-the-sport aspect.

 

[corin_brown]

Last I checked, unsanctioned events still have a TD. As long as you can address your concerns to him/her, you have a leg to stand on.


Had it maybe occurred to you, many of the people at the event who were bothered by the toddler may not have been in the know that they were not alone in that assessment until after the event. Had it also maybe occurred that they didn't want to bring it up during...

Lol. Don't ever change, man.

 

[JC17393]

Ok, by rule, the TD of a PDGA event can't keep a player in good standing from starting any round, but I was referring to the case of the player with a toddler under 2 yo. At what other point should a TD exercise extraordinary judgement than with an extraordinary situation like a player toting an 18 month old around during an A-tier?

I don't know what to tell you, but the TD doesn't have the leeway to make a judgement call like that. By rule, he has to allow the player to play, no matter who he has along with him. There was already a post early on quoting rules committee members discussing such a situation. Their conclusion was that the guy can play, but he's subject to any rules violations calls the group feels they have to make about the child.

So the TD's responsibility, IMO, is let the guy play if he wants but make it unquestionably clear that he is opening himself up to courtesy violations and more (DQ is certainly on the table if things escalate) if the kid becomes an issue. If the guy accepts that, so be it. If not, he can walk away. What the player can't really do is cry foul if other players see fit to call violations on the kid when appropriate.

As the TD, I'd also make it a point to speak with the players who will be grouped with the Dad and his kid and make it clear to them that if there are any issues, they shouldn't hesitate to call courtesy violations and assess penalties if necessary. They're being put in a bad spot, so they should know from the start that they have recourse. Not knowing or understanding that they have the power to warn and penalize players is probably what led to no one saying a word during the round(s) that prompted the OP to start this thread.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Hey all, would like to know what people think.

We just had a tournament. One of the competitions had their 2 year old toddler with them during their rounds who was not under full control some of the time. Some of the golfers in his groups over the weekend were not happy with this situation, but didn't mention anything until after the tournament had finished. The issue was raised with the competitor, a few days later and he thought discrimination might be involved if he was asked to leave his kid at home in the future. What do people think?? Suggestions??

I'm curious to know if any of these people knew the guy and didn't say anything because they were friendly with him and did not want to create an argument. A lot of the times I see discussion regarding people knowing violations occur but not calling them for fear of retaliation of fear of making the rest of the round uncomfortable. It's sad to say but I've seen it time and time again that people will not call violations because the person violating rules behaves erratically already and it's probably not worth it to call them out as it may become physical or even verbally abusive.

 

[Barefooter]

A well behaved 4 year old tagging along after a C-tier rec card is fine. Anything beyond that is suspect.