[Question] Most Consistent Production

[broomerang]

A few thoughts on consistency...

4) While I appreciate the post that said some inconsistency can be good, because once you find a mold that feels good to you, it's nice to be able to get some variation in stability to basically fill other slots once you land on a mold.

I much rather achieve that same effect by selecting different plastics/weights, in a more predictable manner...as opposed to bagging runs that perform differently. While you can make inconsistency work for you, I still wouldn't say it's a good thing.

You buy a mold you're familiar with because of specific expectations based on years of observation. When it doesn't perform as expected, it's bad. Sure, it's nice if you find a legit use for it, but you got it with something else in mind... and there's a pretty good chance you're still looking to fill that need.

I do agree with this. I was referring to inconsistency overall. Some might want the Star/Champ like plastics to fly the same. I like that they do not, it gives me at least 3 unique flights by bagging Champ/Star/Pro. Usually 5 flights once Star and Pro wear in. With the exception of Star Destroyers (which I don't really bag) I don't see much inconsistency in the flight between runs of the same plastic.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The wider the wing, the more inconsistent a disc is gonna be whomever makes it. I really think it also depends on the climate where the factories are. The more stable the air pressure/humidity the better and more consistent the discs will be.

Ok thx bill nye.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Ok thx bill nye.

Don't be hating cuz I'm smarter than you...

 

[swhite]

Is there any possibility, from a business point of view, that a company would "intentionally" introduce variation as a means to faciliate additional sales?

I expect that most/maybe all companies just use whatever recycled plastic pellets that they can get their hands on, and probably at the cheapest price possible. No two deliveries of pellets will be identical, so the resulting discs cannot be identical either.

 

[Twmccoy]

Is there any possibility, from a business point of view, that a company would "intentionally" introduce variation as a means to faciliate additional sales?

Yes, and I almost guarantee Innova has done this many times over the years. Specifically with Destroyers. Say what you will, but not all Destroyers are created equal. Its quite obvious that Innova tweaks with Destroyers from time to time to produce more or less stable variations.

 

[SD86]

Is there any possibility, from a business point of view, that a company would "intentionally" introduce variation as a means to faciliate additional sales?

Innova did that with the Hannah Leatherman Tour Series Star Terns. She asked them to make the HL Terns more overstable than the production runs, and they did (boy! did they ever...). And Tour Series discs facilitate additional sales. That may not be exactly what you're asking, but it's close and is one example I know of...

Other examples would be Beast-X and Beast-L, Eagle-X and Eagle-L...

But just a tweak in a mold? I dunno. Wouldn't put it past 'em...

 

[Jay Dub]

Red discs are the most consistently good discs. Blue ones come in a close second.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Innova did that with the Hannah Leatherman Tour Series Star Terns. She asked them to make the HL Terns more overstable than the production runs, and they did (boy! did they ever...). And Tour Series discs facilitate additional sales. That may not be exactly what you're asking, but it's close and is one example I know of...

Other examples would be Beast-X and Beast-L, Eagle-X and Eagle-L...

But just a tweak in a mold? I dunno. Wouldn't put it past 'em...

Are the Eagle – X, Eagle – L etc. actually different molds or just runs of different stabilities?

 

[mrtho]

I don't know about flight paths because my arm really isn't consistent enough but on feel I can tell you Discraft sucks at consistently. I recently bought a stack of 5 D line Challengers. 2 "Red" (they are friggin pink) 2 "hot pink" (light purple) and one purple one that was actually purple. The red ones feel nice, soft, and supple to the touch almost like a soft Challenger but not as floppy. The purple one felt as hard as a DX Leopard and the pink ones were somewhere in the middle but I'd say closer to red than purple. For me they fly pretty much the same but again I'm not a good test subject.

On a side note I don't want variation in the mold if my xxxx goes swimming I want to be able to order another one that flies like that one did out of the box.

 

[GripEnemy]

Ok thx bill nye.

Are the Eagle – X, Eagle – L etc. actually different molds or just runs of different stabilities?

Yes different molds. The lower half of either disc [mold] is not the same. For drastic example purposes an EL bottom is like a Roadrunner/Sidewinder/Kite/Stingray/Panther/Dart/Wedge/Archangel. I'm assuming you're familiar with one of those.

EX is more Roc/Viper/Banshee/Firebird/Teebird.

EX and other more overstable discs have a concave rim. From the farthest outside edge of the rim to the farthest low point in the bottom there is a fair to large curve. More understable molds like the EL have a flatter and more subtle curve to them (between the same two points I just mentioned). Look at the bottom portions of my examples below:

Firebird Side Profile

Roadrunner Side Profile

 

[SD86]

Are the Eagle – X, Eagle – L etc. actually different molds or just runs of different stabilities?

technically they ARE different molds. But they're intentional variations, done to increase sales, of course...

 

[Alexplz]

Is there any possibility, from a business point of view, that a company would "intentionally" introduce variation as a means to faciliate additional sales?

The Infinite Discs Pharaoh turned out to be a Shryke mold that was intentionally molded up extra stable

 

[F. Howl]

...Not really getting all of the Discraft love here. IMO the big players are all more or less the same. At least Millenium puts the run on the disc.

I've purchased 20 or so Nukes in the past year and only one of them flew much more overstable then what I expect from the mold. (a couple are .5 more or less stable, but not the variation I had in Cannons and Bosses) Over the last 6 years of throwing the Buzzz, only two had more turn then I wanted.

Used to have a mixed bag of Trilogy, Legacy, Prodigy, Innova, and Discraft/DGA but since I mostly buy online, I'm now nearly all Discraft.

 

[Twmccoy]

I've purchased 20 or so Nukes in the past year and only one of them flew much more overstable then what I expect from the mold. (a couple are .5 more or less stable, but not the variation I had in Cannons and Bosses) Over the last 6 years of throwing the Buzzz, only two had more turn then I wanted.

Used to have a mixed bag of Trilogy, Legacy, Prodigy, Innova, and Discraft/DGA but since I mostly buy online, I'm now nearly all Discraft.

Nukes are a pretty steady mold. I don't see a ton of variance in them. You pretty much know what you're getting with Z Nukes.

 

[PMantle]

Respectfully disagree, and I have the inconsistent MVP Waves to prove it.

As to most consistent, I'm not sure there is any company that is consistently consistent. I do think Innova gets a rap for inconsistency because of the sheer volume of discs they make, especially in super-popular molds like the Destroyer.

It's MVP and the Wave is what proves it to me. I like inconsistent molds so I can carry a bunch and not have to rely on seasoning. All my Waves fly the same. :banghead:

 

[BogeyNoMore]

technically they ARE different molds. But they're intentional variations, done to increase sales, of course...

Agreed 100%.
But Innova doesn't make it obvious whether a given disc is an L (relatively straight) vs. X (concave) wing... which kind of makes it a "caveat emptor" situation. You have to tell them apart for yourself, or depend on the dealer/knowledgeable friend to tell you.


Hence inexperienced players are bound interpret what is actually a significant difference between molds, as being two discs of the same mold that fly very differently = inconsistency.

 

[PMantle]

The Destroyer L is such a great mold. opcorn:

 

[biscoe]

Injection molding= very inconsistent mode of production. End thread.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Injection molding= very inconsistent mode of production. End thread.

So compression molding from Vibram should be more consistent?

 

[ThrowBot]

The Eagle X/L discussion is pretty far off topic; different mold. It's not inconsistency, it's a totally separate product. If anything, Innova hurt themselves by not clarifying the differences a lot of the time. For the SL, FL, TL, etc. they have been pretty good about making the delineation. For whatever reason, the EX and EL were both sold with the same stock stamps for a long time, and even the ink on the back wasn't always informative.

(BUT, within the X and L molds, both have had their own consistency issues historically. Boom, back on topic!)

I do think that Innova could probably make more consistent discs if that was their goal, and they do intentionally allow for some variations. Especially thinking of Destroyers, when people started to notice the differences between runs, some people wanted more like this and other folks wanted more like that. (And some people want the full spectrum of Destroyers to cover multiple slots.) Innova seems to be trying to keep everyone happy by allowing some inconsistency between runs...BUT, of course that makes people very unhappy if they expect/want consistency.

Personally I no longer have that expectation. Been throwing Innova too long; I know the deal. It can be a bummer buying online, but good shops will be able to tell you about PLH and dome. Kinda frees your mind when you realize that the name of the mold is just the starting point; there's a lot more information to be gleaned looking at a disc's profile. Or maybe I just have Stockholm Syndrome

Also, to be fair, Innova could do a better job clarifying the inconsistencies between their runs. They have made progress in the right direction by specifying some profile information for certain molds (e.g. Flat Topped discs) but that type of information is not always available. They mostly seem content to churn out lots of discs and let shops/throwers suss out the profile characteristics of each run. There's a lot of information out there but it can be pretty esoteric.

So compression molding from Vibram should be more consistent?

Not necessarily. My understanding is they would have some of the same things lead to variation: slight differences in available bulk materials, and material contraction during cooling (even compression molding uses pretty high temperatures).

Not saying that Vibram discs are (or aren't) more consistent than other brands. I personally have no idea. Just saying that they deal with the same types of issues as everyone else, even with a slightly different molding process.

Also, sounds like the most consistent thing about Vibram discs going forward is that they will consistently be out of production.