DESTROYERONE
Newbie
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Messages
- 11
Played in Ohio doubles and wonder if this is legal. Player A tees off and then runs down the fairway to see if his disc is in good place before partner tees off.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Is it legal
- Thread starter DESTROYERONE
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Only if he can run and check before his partner throws within the roughly 30 seconds available.
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 650
distraction, someone's running in the fairway...restart the count
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Not when your partner or caddie is the distraction.
No such thing as "restarting" the count.
Now if the first player can get off the tee and down the fairway fast enough that the second player's 30 seconds can't really start because his field is not clear and free of distractions, then you might have something.
Chuck's right though. A doubles team is, for the purposes of the rules, one player. So I don't think one's partner being down the fairway counts as a true "distraction". I think on a truly blind hole, I might allow for one partner to scout out the throw before the other throws, but only if the favor is reciprocated and only if it's limited to that hole/shot. It can't be a habitual thing or the round would take forever.
In fact, in the instance of a blind throw, I'd be more inclined to send one player ahead to spot for everyone (and come back to throw last) rather than have people running up and down the fairway on every throw.
There isn't? If a car comes by while I'm at my lie, I don't get 30 seconds after it's gone? I only get the 30 seconds from the first instance of no distractions?
lines
Double Eagle Member
I feel if that was the case you could make an argument for anything being a distraction.
The Jim Akins rule.
Not sure if there's such a thing but if there was this rule would apply.
I'm not seeing any PDGA definition of distraction. Probably up to the card to determine.
For the sake of argument, consider the car isn't a distraction, but driving on a road in the fairway. That one's cut and dry enough that the playing area isn't clear.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Lets' review the rule:
The 30 seconds starts AFTER all of the above. So yes, the 30 seconds restarts if the playing area is not clear and free of distractions.
The 30 seconds starts AFTER all of the above. So yes, the 30 seconds restarts if the playing area is not clear and free of distractions.
That's definitely my interpretation. But I'd say the rules don't explicitly state that it must remain clear/free of distraction. That's just my interpretation of their intent. And I have to wonder why they used the word "after" instead of "while" if my interpretation is correct.
Aside from the 30 second rule, is there an issue of fair play? Part of playing doubles is strategy. If you know that your partner shanked his drive, you might play a more conservative drive. If they're parked, you would "go for it". On a blind fairway do you want each team to send their first player forward to evaluate their drive and advise the second partner on how to proceed?
I think that the spirit of doubles is for both to throw their drives (using whatever information they can gather from the tee) and then go down the fairway and choose their best drive. But moving forward only after all teeshots have been thrown. Sending a spotter forward on a blind drive (as discussed above) is a different scenario in my mind.
I think that the spirit of doubles is for both to throw their drives (using whatever information they can gather from the tee) and then go down the fairway and choose their best drive. But moving forward only after all teeshots have been thrown. Sending a spotter forward on a blind drive (as discussed above) is a different scenario in my mind.
Aside from the 30 second rule, you still have a responsibility to pace of play. You must do your best to keep up with the group ahead of you. Aside from that, you are not to advance farther down the fairway than the lie of your group members.
It is clear the group had decided already to not use a spotter, or they would already know how they lie.
It is clear the group had decided already to not use a spotter, or they would already know how they lie.
The 30 seconds starts after all of the above, yes. Where does it say that those conditions must persist after the clock starts and through the moment the player makes his/her throw? Nothing in the rule suggests that a player is guaranteed a full 30 seconds of the playing area being clear and free of distractions.
Courtesy dictates that one must not throw if the throw could injury someone. So I think that the clock can be paused for safety concerns (e.g. a player or a pedestrian or an animal pops up on the fairway after it was believed to be free and clear). But I don't believe it goes so far as to allow a reset of the clock.
"Clear" and "free of distractions" are given as equals in the rule, imo. I don't see a reason to allow for one over the other to be given leeway.
I think the intention of the rule is a persistent 30 seconds of the conditions being met. However, I agree with you the wording does not support that. Easy fix, though; like I said; change "after" to "while".
Last edited:
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
So a player is taking his full 30 seconds, at about the 28 second mark and just as he was to throw someone walks out in the middle of the fairway. Are you saying that once that person leaves, the player needs to rush and make his throw in under 2 seconds?
No. I'm saying he doesn't get a new full 30 seconds just because someone walked out in front of him before he threw. I don't think he needs to throw in 2 seconds after that, but I don't think he's entitled to a new 30 seconds either. Just throw promptly once it's safe to do so. I mean, whatever preparations occurred that took up the 28 seconds shouldn't all need to be repeated, no? A new 30 seconds shouldn't be necessary anyway.
If we had an actual shot clock in the game and people actually timed every throw to the second, then maybe the concern over "what if the safety concern happens at the 28-second mark" would be a justifiable argument. We don't do that. The only time the clock gets brought up (aside from these types of threads) is if a player seems to be taking too long. Otherwise, we're just guessing at the time that has lapsed.
My point is that unless the wording of the rule is changed to support the notion of re-setting the clock entirely, the emphasis should be on throwing as promptly as possible once the conditions for the 30-second clock have been met, even if one has to pause for safety concerns on occasion.
Whole it is correct that there is nothing in the rule directly indicating that the 30 sec. resets, there is also nothing indicating that it pauses or that you don't get a new 30 seconds. So there is no rule directly addressing the issue, so whe come 801.01, and the closest existing rule is that you have 30 seconds. There is nothing in the rules allowing you to penalize a player for taking up to 30 seconds again., so by default you are allowed to do so
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 650
This is just one person's made-up interpretation and carries no weight, probably because it's vague and completely unenforceable. 30 seconds is measurable. "As promptly as possible" is so ambiguous that it effectively has no meaning.
Similar threads
