SQUATCH Legend!

[DanJon]

Clearly we've all seen copies and rip-offs before in the disc golf world.

I think what bothers me more than the blatant rip-off, is the dumb back story on their site.

Like, any serious disc golfer is going to see right through that.

The owners have existing contacts/clients in the bag manufacturing industry and chose the most high end bag on the market as a model for a reason.

They knew that a lot of people would say, "awesome, I can get a Pound replica for like half the price."

We all know at this point, that consumer culture has shown that the majority of people care more about convenience and "getting a deal".

 

[txmxer]

Clearly we've all seen copies and rip-offs before in the disc golf world.

I think what bothers me more than the blatant rip-off, is the dumb back story on their site.

Like, any serious disc golfer is going to see right through that.

The owners have existing contacts/clients in the bag manufacturing industry and chose the most high end bag on the market as a model for a reason.

They knew that a lot of people would say, "awesome, I can get a Pound replica for like half the price."

We all know at this point, that consumer culture has shown that the majority of people care more about convenience and "getting a deal".

It's a tough gig. The choices are generally more complex than just being cheap.

We are psychologically driven to consume. Lot of people can't afford the "best". You want a monster bag your choice is nothing or the clone ?

Then again, in a limited market, people have been known to gouge price products. If someone sells a product for $1000, that should be $50-$100, it's hard to justify paying the big bucks when the copy shows up.

I'm not arguing for the Squatch. I think it's ridiculously over sized. I don't want to carry that much stuff on a round. I've hucked a 100 pounds of stuff for miles in the Army. I don't need to do it on my free/pleasure time

 

[robdeforge]

They own the mold and Discmania owns the name. There are questions about whether Innova can legally use the P2 in ad copy w/o permission from Discmania. Lots of talk has happened so far, but it's all armchair lawyers, and not anyone w/an actual horse in the race.

There have been claims that the Squatch situation is IP theft, so that's my parallel.

Now I get it, that's totally fair. still a little bit different because Innova didn't need to buy a p2 and have somebody copy it for them, but I get you're not trying to make a 1:1 parallel. also they're not trying to undercut discmania by copying and selling cheaper p2s... but I digress lol

 

[mr.smOOOth]

I have a Pound bag and yes it was expensive, but I wanted to support a guy who gave back not only to the sport, but also to the workers in the U.S.
If you are going to go the cheaper route, at least buy from a company who helps to support touring pros.

 

[jakebake91]

I have a Pound bag and yes it was expensive, but I wanted to support a guy who gave back not only to the sport, but also to the workers in the U.S.
If you are going to go the cheaper route, at least buy from a company who helps to support touring pros.

Just to play devil's advocate, cuz I really don't care, but:

Why should most of us care about the touring pros? The ones that are doing it seem to be doing just fine without additional support. One of them drives a McLaren for goodness sakes.

 

[ODRB]

Just to play devil's advocate, cuz I really don't care, but:

Why should most of us care about the touring pros? The ones that are doing it seem to be doing just fine without additional support. One of them drives a McLaren for goodness sakes.

Yup. One. Just the one.

 

[mr.smOOOth]

Just to play devil's advocate, cuz I really don't care, but:

Why should most of us care about the touring pros? The ones that are doing it seem to be doing just fine without additional support. One of them drives a McLaren for goodness sakes.

I was just suggesting that instead of buying a bag from a company whose 'team' is basically the owners, your money should go to a company who gives back to the sport. You must only see the handful of pros who win the big tournaments and have Youtube channels. There are many pros who still have to work at a 'job' type job to afford to pay their bills and hopefully get to a tournament when they can. A few free or discounted bags can make a big difference to them.

 

[Sydex]

Attorney here, y'all are using terms of art you clearly know nothing of. Trade Dress likely won't apply because of the functional aspect of the design and lack of proper registration. Meanwhile, likely no patent claim is available because in addition to the absence a patent filing there's nothing about a bag, disc bag too, that would suggest it's not based on prior subject matter or art. The subject matter is obvious, a bag for discs and it's based on prior design of which no enforcement of said design has ever been pursued that I can find.

Is it a copy? They look similar. Theft? I think you need to understand the jurisprudence behind the term. IP infringement? Not likely.

Now, does anybody have a review of the bag?

 

[gabetjh]

Now, does anybody have a review of the bag?

so far the most detailed video out is only doth savek's unboxing video. If you follow his instagram he has been posting a few opinions about the bag still too early to talk about the longevity of the bag.

I also message bradley williams about the bag and he said that he felt a little bit of discomfort around the traps, was unsure whether its just the bag or him. But he's pretty happy with the big putter pouch and phone pouch.

I think there's another pro disc golfer who has the bag as well but i cant remember who

 

[jakebake91]

I was just suggesting that instead of buying a bag from a company whose 'team' is basically the owners, your money should go to a company who gives back to the sport. You must only see the handful of pros who win the big tournaments and have Youtube channels. There are many pros who still have to work at a 'job' type job to afford to pay their bills and hopefully get to a tournament when they can. A few free or discounted bags can make a big difference to them.

I understand your point. My point is that nobody in the world cares about what I choose to do for a living. Why would I/should I care about those particular pros or any pros for that matter? How do they affect my disc golf hobby? Supporting local clubs, sure, that I get. But the pros (seemingly) do nothing for my local disc golf scene.


Again, not saying I agree or disagree with any company or any of this alleged piracy. Simply trying to gain an insight into a side of this argument I'm missing.

 

[mr.smOOOth]

I understand your point. My point is that nobody in the world cares about what I choose to do for a living. Why would I/should I care about those particular pros or any pros for that matter? How do they affect my disc golf hobby? Supporting local clubs, sure, that I get. But the pros (seemingly) do nothing for my local disc golf scene.


Again, not saying I agree or disagree with any company or any of this alleged piracy. Simply trying to gain an insight into a side of this argument I'm missing.

I understand you may not care about the professionals, but they have actually done a lot for the sport. Seeing highlights from tournaments on the news and ESPN is helping to grow the sport. I see you used the word 'hobby'. Everyone I know refers to it as a 'sport' and like any sport they have their favorite athletes to follow and root for. Popularity means disc sales and money for the manufacturers and that means more discs and disc choices for you and me.

 

[ODRB]

Trade Dress likely won't apply because of the functional aspect of the design and lack of proper registration.

Take another look at Trade Dress. It is specifically separate from the functional aspects of the design. In fact, under US law, trade dress must be both distinctive and nonfunctional, and most trade dress is protected without registration.

See, e.g., the shape of a glass Coke bottle. Perfect example of trade dress. No other company uses that shape. It isn't a functional feature. It is a non-functional feature that distinguishes the product within a market. Copying it creates consumer confusion.

Check yo' jurisprudence.

 

[ODRB]

Theft? I think you need to understand the jurisprudence behind the term.

No you don't.

No one is suggesting they be arrested, charged with the crime of theft, and prosecuted. (Plus, if I wanted to know what theft meant I would check the statutory definition, not "jurisprudence".)

People steal parking spots, Halloween costume ideas, the date for the perfect June wedding.

Heck, I just stole your condescending attitude. I don't need to check the jurisprudence to know that.

 

[Sydex]

See, e.g., the shape of a glass Coke bottle. Perfect example of trade dress. No other company uses that shape. It isn't a functional feature. It is a non-functional feature that distinguishes the product within a market. Copying it creates consumer confusion.

Check yo' jurisprudence.

Registered and litigated. What's your point? It proves mine, actually.

No you don't.

No one is suggesting they be arrested, charged with the crime of theft, and prosecuted. (Plus, if I wanted to know what theft meant I would check the statutory definition, not "jurisprudence".)

People steal parking spots, Halloween costume ideas, the date for the perfect June wedding.

Heck, I just stole your condescending attitude. I don't need to check the jurisprudence to know that.

Odd, that you wouldn't look up the case law behind the criminal act. That being whether it was just theft. Perhaps it was burglary or robbery more specifically. Maybe there is a defense that applies. So yes, you would (let alone should) absolutely look into the jurisprudence behind the action. It can be said you'd have an ethical obligation to do so.

Not sure what's condescending about my attitude, sometimes the facts simply aren't in your favor.

 

[pjhayes7]

Came for the bag discussion, stayed for the community college law school course.

 

[R-Ogre]

Came for the bag discussion, stayed for the community college law school course.

Jeff Winger?!?

 

[HyooMac]

I wonder if the bag is any good.



Maybe we'll find out before we get to 200 on the thread.

 

[ODRB]

Registered and litigated. What's your point? It proves mine, actually.

That's not how proof works. Not even in Texas. You stated that trade dress was related to function, and couldn't be enforced without registration.

The example clarifies that dress is specifically not about functional aspects of the design. And the fact that Coca-Cola registered (for additional protection) doesn't change the fact that most trade dress protection is enforced regardless of registration.

Squatch copied non-functional design aspects. That can be enforced without registration.

Odd, that you wouldn't look up the case law behind the criminal act. That being whether it was just theft. Perhaps it was burglary or robbery more specifically. Maybe there is a defense that applies. So yes, you would (let alone should) absolutely look into the jurisprudence behind the action. It can be said you'd have an ethical obligation to do so.

Not sure what's condescending about my attitude, sometimes the facts simply aren't in your favor.

Well, since Squatch didn't get close to legal theft, and since I'm not prosecuting, I don't need to know how courts have interpreted the statutes. A quick glance at the definition is plenty in this case, to dispel anyone from the notion that Squatch acted criminally. Does the model code of professional conduct apply to this online discussion?

Stop it.

Squatch specifically copied design elements. The stole someone else's design ideas. No one is going after them criminally. And no one suggested that.

 

[feelinlucky]

Well it has been a few weeks since i started this thread and the conversation has been a bit heavy on the legal bs, i was surprised to come back and see no one is talking about Drew Gibson signing a sponsorship deal with Squatch, Looks like they are gaining traction in the Disc golf community despite the comparisons to Pound.

 

[Emoney]

Well it has been a few weeks since i started this thread and the conversation has been a bit heavy on the legal bs, i was surprised to come back and see no one is talking about Drew Gibson signing a sponsorship deal with Squatch, Looks like they are gaining traction in the Disc golf community despite the comparisons to Pound.

Wait....u mean they are supporting the pros?