Cloudbreaker Run Identification Update
Warning: This was too long post, had to cut Cb2 here, it can be found from Facebook. Thanks in advance to everyone who reads it.
Both collectors and throwers may find this helpful, but I encourage throwers to look for the profile of individual discs to find what kind of flight they're looking for, not specific run.
The purpose of this analysis is to correct outdated/deepen the analysis and information about the runs and help people know what they're buying online.
I hope it helps people to start identifying discs themselves at some point.
Every day some Discmaniacs come across to a topic where someone is unsure/wants to know the run of their Cloudbreaker.
This analysis is coming purely from passion as being my favourite disc and stamp all time in +10 years throwing.
I wouldn't want this analysis to have any effect on the market. This is the reason I've mostly kept silent before.
I only own 2 collectables and 3 throwers, so I haven't hoarded before publishing this.
I'll add this to dgcoursereview (Cloudbreaker Run Identification Update) and Facebook (Discmania Collectors And Throwers Group - Cloudbreaker Run Identification Update).
These threads are good place to discuss everything related. Please keep them clean, out of buying/selling advertisements, harrasment etc.
Cloudbreaker:
The analysis comes together from over a year of experience in searching information about cloudbreakers with +100 certain run identifications and hundreds of +90% certain.
I've seen some variations, that can't be identified because of variations, rare patterns etc.
I tried to gather alot of discs (detailed pics and vocal info) from multiple owners who knows the date of purchase but fell short with 30 ish discs with proper information.
Other than that I had to go with my experience and logical knowledge, so there are some assumptions that can be seen clearly by the way it's written.
Identifying a certain disc and run should start with the title: How to name specific run.
Prototype is technically a different disc since its' dimensions and specifications vary from other runs according to PDGA (DD3 (Cloudbreaker, Distance Driver) vs. DD3 (retest)
and Behind the Shield with Jussi Meresmaa, Episode 2/2019 from DiscmaniaGolfDiscs (Youtube).
Then there is 1st, 2nd or 3rd run. Some people refer proto as 1st and some don't, so it's important to add something like "1st run after proto". In this analysis, I'll add
"... AP=After Prototype" to keep you on the track.
Protos are embossed as "Prototype". Also, stamp on the bottom right side corner is a bit different. I've heard that some protos and 1st run AP doesn't have any embossing,
but it was so long ago that I've seen one that I can't confirm this (so check the stamp).
There are multiple ways to identify 1-3 AP and here is how to start:
Check the weight.
Check flatness/dome. To check if the disc is poptop at all, press with thumb on both sides where thumb's inner side (IPC) is where stamp starts.
Check wing shape.
Check for bubbles. Some individual discs have different amount of bubbles even inside each run and positioned differently, so keep that in mind.
Check the colour and stamp. (This is the most inaccurate, but helps overall identification!)
Combination of all these will tell with a 90 % certain, when viewing eye have seen more of these differences.
To separate "definitely not" -possibilities and to identify the easiest, 2nd run after proto (I'll short after production in the future as AP) we can see, that the disc is on the flatter side
and it have concave angled under wing. (DISC-LAIMER! Atleast some blueish max weight 1st run AP look exactly the same).
Rumours tell Discmania didn't make under 175g 2nd run AP, and even though I can't confirm, I've never personally seen one. 2nd run AP doesn't have any visible bubbles, and sometimes these
can be weighted on scale even up to 179g. 2nd run AP colours are usually plain and without swirls, the most usual colour being light green and stamps are usually some kind of 1-colour reflective
When there's more visible swirls, they are usually small neon yellow or small red swirls/dots. In some 3rd AP have these as well, but swirls are usually bigger.
When comparing to eachother within 2 AP run, some have just a tick lower PLH, with same kind of profile otherwise.
This run discs have the least amount of glide, and many see these as the most overstable because of the angle of the underwing and lacking the glide. Easy to grip with forehand and great for it.
If the disc have dome, check if it's poptop (even small). Poptop max weight usually means it's the last run (those very domey poptops are for sure last run, 3rd AP)
In rarer occasions some grey-blue max weight might have small poptop on 1st AP run.
Then, check carefully on top and bottom of the wing if there is any bubbles (use multiple different light sources to see this).
If it's under 170g check bubbles, there is always visible bubbles on these.
This is the way to identify lower weight 1st AP and 3rd AP. 3rd AP have same kind of bubbles than cb2 for example. (Blizzard, large, alot also on tip of the wing making it less durable)
It's uncommon but not rare (usually depending on the colours) that max weight discs have some bubbles in 1st AP and 3rd AP runs, usually they're on top of the wing/nose.
3rd AP max weight bubbles that are on top have tendency be blizzardy/ more closer to eachother.
Bubbles are located under wing or at the nose on top of the wing where dome starts.
Depending on individual, there might not be bubbles at all.
Max weight last run have most noticeable variations, since some of them looks like a bowl with so high poptop dome with flat wing (+ flashing),
but some have more moderate poptop dome and very aggressive and "overstable" wing. Also, on last run nose shape seems a bit more massive (hard to see from pics alone).
These are redeemed also the most overstable run, since they have so aggressive wing shape and high dome, but also they have the most glide.
It's pretty common that 3rd AP 172g penned discs. Can't confirm if all 172g are though. These usually have aggressive wing and small mild dome pop top and don't have much visible bubbles.
Most under 170g last run discs that have huge poptop dome, have lowest plh compared to any other CB1.
Under 170g (limited quantity) are bombers for those who throws 400-530 ft, being tick more stable and bit more glidey than 1st AP.
They're less durable though and some people find them harder to grip. These are hard to hyzer flip atleast with my 475 ft max distance.
On 3rd run AP, colours and swirls are usually more brighter/vibrant or dark/darker.
There are some discs that have halo, but also some swirls in the middle, usually these have swirly half-halo though. Usually not smooth halo rounding.
In both 3rd AP and 1st AP some grey ones are smokey.
3rd run AP have tendency to have most amount of "more special" stamps, most amount of colour variations and most amount of x-outs/double stamps.
1st run AP have different bubbles. They are smaller, not that close to eachother, less on tip of the wing and therefore these are very sought after
(durability, moderate dome, very limited quantity).
These are bombers for majority (who throws 350-470 ft) and these are in my opinion the best throwers for controlled max distance - the definition of CB1.
Usually 1st AP runs have moderate dome/smooth consistent dome which makes disc not being poptop and smooth concave under wing.
There are some individuals that have very small poptop that can't be seen on eye.
easily, but check if it pops. The lower the weight disc have in this run, the less aggressive wing and less domey they usually are (almost like cb2).
Most grey and smokey 1st after protos have flat under wing, only flashing aparts being totally flat with nice dome that's not poptop.
Colours of 1st run AP are usually greyish, purplish/pinkish, cyanish and they usually have smooth halo with plain colour in the middle.
The most common stamp colours are black, red and darker blue. These are the closest to the flight of a prototype.
Lastly, each run have variations and are hard to identify by the profile. Here's usually when bubbles and colour + stamp colour knowledge comes in hand, that is only learned by seeing alot.
For example silver stars can be found on each run, on 1st after proto they're very rare.
In some cases it is easy to notice the run. Usually I first check things listed above, then confirm my conclusion with colours, sometimes both ways
There are exceptions in each run, and therefore throwers should always check profile before purchase in order to find what they're looking for.
Variations happens for alot of reasons which I wont go on this thread, but it's worth to mention that some individual discs from earlier runs have probably be taken from the shelf
and sold during later restock.
Collectorwise protos are nice gems (1000 made), but aren't rarest. Double stamps (also with certain stamps and patterns (outline, drunken, team stamp, chef's special etc)
are considered more rare since they're mostly x-outs without given quantity but known as being low, probably less than 100? There's probably 20-50 drunken stamped.
I've seen only 3 multi stamped outlines (like in the picture), one have team discmania stamp also, one being triple foil and thrown in the field.
From all "normal" Cloudbreakers, under 170g 1st run after protos are the most rare (usually at 600 range lower weights compared to max 2000-5000? EU & US combined),
followed by last run under 170g (probably the same percentage as 1st AP run but interest increased and probably total disc quantity as well?), and then protos.
Most of people dictate value by colours and stamps, therefore normal run with nice colours, swirls or stamp usually fetch more.
If this is the case within rarer cb, the price goes up by alot. Also another reason why collectorwise 170g 1st run after proto is the most rare is that there's no many left in unthrown condition.
These are the most sought after by usual player with 350-500 ft power which means majority. They are less stable but still includes great amount of glide and
controllability. And also more durability because manufacturing changed during later runs.
Final cassette:
I don't have proper platform to sink all this information in, so I'll just add some most notable pictures to Facebook in order to clarify something specific
(2nd AP run 175g, 1st AP run 168g and 3rd AP run 167g).
Feel free to use this information and share with your friends if you find it useful. Please correct me if you know something more.
I do not know exact sizes of each run or special discs, except Proto. I'd be glad if someone have this information.
Warning: This was too long post, had to cut Cb2 here, it can be found from Facebook. Thanks in advance to everyone who reads it.
Both collectors and throwers may find this helpful, but I encourage throwers to look for the profile of individual discs to find what kind of flight they're looking for, not specific run.
The purpose of this analysis is to correct outdated/deepen the analysis and information about the runs and help people know what they're buying online.
I hope it helps people to start identifying discs themselves at some point.
Every day some Discmaniacs come across to a topic where someone is unsure/wants to know the run of their Cloudbreaker.
This analysis is coming purely from passion as being my favourite disc and stamp all time in +10 years throwing.
I wouldn't want this analysis to have any effect on the market. This is the reason I've mostly kept silent before.
I only own 2 collectables and 3 throwers, so I haven't hoarded before publishing this.
I'll add this to dgcoursereview (Cloudbreaker Run Identification Update) and Facebook (Discmania Collectors And Throwers Group - Cloudbreaker Run Identification Update).
These threads are good place to discuss everything related. Please keep them clean, out of buying/selling advertisements, harrasment etc.
Cloudbreaker:
The analysis comes together from over a year of experience in searching information about cloudbreakers with +100 certain run identifications and hundreds of +90% certain.
I've seen some variations, that can't be identified because of variations, rare patterns etc.
I tried to gather alot of discs (detailed pics and vocal info) from multiple owners who knows the date of purchase but fell short with 30 ish discs with proper information.
Other than that I had to go with my experience and logical knowledge, so there are some assumptions that can be seen clearly by the way it's written.
Identifying a certain disc and run should start with the title: How to name specific run.
Prototype is technically a different disc since its' dimensions and specifications vary from other runs according to PDGA (DD3 (Cloudbreaker, Distance Driver) vs. DD3 (retest)
and Behind the Shield with Jussi Meresmaa, Episode 2/2019 from DiscmaniaGolfDiscs (Youtube).
Then there is 1st, 2nd or 3rd run. Some people refer proto as 1st and some don't, so it's important to add something like "1st run after proto". In this analysis, I'll add
"... AP=After Prototype" to keep you on the track.
Protos are embossed as "Prototype". Also, stamp on the bottom right side corner is a bit different. I've heard that some protos and 1st run AP doesn't have any embossing,
but it was so long ago that I've seen one that I can't confirm this (so check the stamp).
There are multiple ways to identify 1-3 AP and here is how to start:
Check the weight.
Check flatness/dome. To check if the disc is poptop at all, press with thumb on both sides where thumb's inner side (IPC) is where stamp starts.
Check wing shape.
Check for bubbles. Some individual discs have different amount of bubbles even inside each run and positioned differently, so keep that in mind.
Check the colour and stamp. (This is the most inaccurate, but helps overall identification!)
Combination of all these will tell with a 90 % certain, when viewing eye have seen more of these differences.
To separate "definitely not" -possibilities and to identify the easiest, 2nd run after proto (I'll short after production in the future as AP) we can see, that the disc is on the flatter side
and it have concave angled under wing. (DISC-LAIMER! Atleast some blueish max weight 1st run AP look exactly the same).
Rumours tell Discmania didn't make under 175g 2nd run AP, and even though I can't confirm, I've never personally seen one. 2nd run AP doesn't have any visible bubbles, and sometimes these
can be weighted on scale even up to 179g. 2nd run AP colours are usually plain and without swirls, the most usual colour being light green and stamps are usually some kind of 1-colour reflective
When there's more visible swirls, they are usually small neon yellow or small red swirls/dots. In some 3rd AP have these as well, but swirls are usually bigger.
When comparing to eachother within 2 AP run, some have just a tick lower PLH, with same kind of profile otherwise.
This run discs have the least amount of glide, and many see these as the most overstable because of the angle of the underwing and lacking the glide. Easy to grip with forehand and great for it.
If the disc have dome, check if it's poptop (even small). Poptop max weight usually means it's the last run (those very domey poptops are for sure last run, 3rd AP)
In rarer occasions some grey-blue max weight might have small poptop on 1st AP run.
Then, check carefully on top and bottom of the wing if there is any bubbles (use multiple different light sources to see this).
If it's under 170g check bubbles, there is always visible bubbles on these.
This is the way to identify lower weight 1st AP and 3rd AP. 3rd AP have same kind of bubbles than cb2 for example. (Blizzard, large, alot also on tip of the wing making it less durable)
It's uncommon but not rare (usually depending on the colours) that max weight discs have some bubbles in 1st AP and 3rd AP runs, usually they're on top of the wing/nose.
3rd AP max weight bubbles that are on top have tendency be blizzardy/ more closer to eachother.
Bubbles are located under wing or at the nose on top of the wing where dome starts.
Depending on individual, there might not be bubbles at all.
Max weight last run have most noticeable variations, since some of them looks like a bowl with so high poptop dome with flat wing (+ flashing),
but some have more moderate poptop dome and very aggressive and "overstable" wing. Also, on last run nose shape seems a bit more massive (hard to see from pics alone).
These are redeemed also the most overstable run, since they have so aggressive wing shape and high dome, but also they have the most glide.
It's pretty common that 3rd AP 172g penned discs. Can't confirm if all 172g are though. These usually have aggressive wing and small mild dome pop top and don't have much visible bubbles.
Most under 170g last run discs that have huge poptop dome, have lowest plh compared to any other CB1.
Under 170g (limited quantity) are bombers for those who throws 400-530 ft, being tick more stable and bit more glidey than 1st AP.
They're less durable though and some people find them harder to grip. These are hard to hyzer flip atleast with my 475 ft max distance.
On 3rd run AP, colours and swirls are usually more brighter/vibrant or dark/darker.
There are some discs that have halo, but also some swirls in the middle, usually these have swirly half-halo though. Usually not smooth halo rounding.
In both 3rd AP and 1st AP some grey ones are smokey.
3rd run AP have tendency to have most amount of "more special" stamps, most amount of colour variations and most amount of x-outs/double stamps.
1st run AP have different bubbles. They are smaller, not that close to eachother, less on tip of the wing and therefore these are very sought after
(durability, moderate dome, very limited quantity).
These are bombers for majority (who throws 350-470 ft) and these are in my opinion the best throwers for controlled max distance - the definition of CB1.
Usually 1st AP runs have moderate dome/smooth consistent dome which makes disc not being poptop and smooth concave under wing.
There are some individuals that have very small poptop that can't be seen on eye.
easily, but check if it pops. The lower the weight disc have in this run, the less aggressive wing and less domey they usually are (almost like cb2).
Most grey and smokey 1st after protos have flat under wing, only flashing aparts being totally flat with nice dome that's not poptop.
Colours of 1st run AP are usually greyish, purplish/pinkish, cyanish and they usually have smooth halo with plain colour in the middle.
The most common stamp colours are black, red and darker blue. These are the closest to the flight of a prototype.
Lastly, each run have variations and are hard to identify by the profile. Here's usually when bubbles and colour + stamp colour knowledge comes in hand, that is only learned by seeing alot.
For example silver stars can be found on each run, on 1st after proto they're very rare.
In some cases it is easy to notice the run. Usually I first check things listed above, then confirm my conclusion with colours, sometimes both ways
There are exceptions in each run, and therefore throwers should always check profile before purchase in order to find what they're looking for.
Variations happens for alot of reasons which I wont go on this thread, but it's worth to mention that some individual discs from earlier runs have probably be taken from the shelf
and sold during later restock.
Collectorwise protos are nice gems (1000 made), but aren't rarest. Double stamps (also with certain stamps and patterns (outline, drunken, team stamp, chef's special etc)
are considered more rare since they're mostly x-outs without given quantity but known as being low, probably less than 100? There's probably 20-50 drunken stamped.
I've seen only 3 multi stamped outlines (like in the picture), one have team discmania stamp also, one being triple foil and thrown in the field.
From all "normal" Cloudbreakers, under 170g 1st run after protos are the most rare (usually at 600 range lower weights compared to max 2000-5000? EU & US combined),
followed by last run under 170g (probably the same percentage as 1st AP run but interest increased and probably total disc quantity as well?), and then protos.
Most of people dictate value by colours and stamps, therefore normal run with nice colours, swirls or stamp usually fetch more.
If this is the case within rarer cb, the price goes up by alot. Also another reason why collectorwise 170g 1st run after proto is the most rare is that there's no many left in unthrown condition.
These are the most sought after by usual player with 350-500 ft power which means majority. They are less stable but still includes great amount of glide and
controllability. And also more durability because manufacturing changed during later runs.
Final cassette:
I don't have proper platform to sink all this information in, so I'll just add some most notable pictures to Facebook in order to clarify something specific
(2nd AP run 175g, 1st AP run 168g and 3rd AP run 167g).
Feel free to use this information and share with your friends if you find it useful. Please correct me if you know something more.
I do not know exact sizes of each run or special discs, except Proto. I'd be glad if someone have this information.
