Disc Golf Tournaments/competition

[cmlasley]

As a poor law student with a family, I really can't afford to buy membership in the PDGA or play tournaments. Frankly, I don't ever expect to play tournaments because of the time investment, and feel that entry fees would be better spent on new plastic. However, when I get out of school, I will still join the PDGA. I think the organization will be crucial to making disc golf a truly professional sport.

As far as growing the sport, I think (and I have heard this discussed before) the PDGA needs to split off an ADGA (Amateur Disc Golf Association) to handle all of those rec/amateur players that want to play in tourneys. Using the current rating system (or maybe even something with more resolution), they should make rules so that once your rating gets to a certain number (and have it not be too arbitrary) you can no longer play in the ADGA events. The ADGA and PDGA should be split into divisions the way the current systems are.

 

[black udder]

That ADGA sounds like what I'm thinking too... So you'd compete against people on your level... until you went beyond that.

Interesting... thanks.

I really can't stress how amazed I am at the level of dedication of the disc golf community. I mean, really. How many sports have the dedication of it's fan base to essentially donate yearly membership fees just for the sake of growing the sport?

I've met some of the most incredible people through disc golf. It really is an amazing sport. I can't help but wonder, if it gets bigger, don't we increase the ratio of jerks too?

 

[Bruce1]

I'm not sure what you want the PDGA to offer? What can anyone offer to average Joe who just wants to have a casual round with his buddies once a month. A six-pack maybe? :lol:

I guess it will always be targeted at those who actually play in PDGA events, that is, the active members.

Re: winning, I'm not sure why everyone should have a chance to win, that would seem to reward mediocrity. As far as I can see, all sports have the 'can's and 'can't quite's, and it's the ones who work hard and challenge themselves who become the 'can's.

 

[black udder]

I'm just looking for even competition.

When you look at the top 10 players, that's pretty even. All I'm asking is that the playing field below them in any given tournament not be 50 strokes behind. I know people can have an off day, but those guys are a handful of strokes away from one another. It's like a best score for the locals on a course will be, say, -14. A pro like the top 10 comes in and shoots a -16 first time or something. Perhaps that's a little stretch, but I do believe there is a difference in skill levels between the touring/sponsored pros and many of the local folks that put themselves in the pro/open division.

As for what does the PDGA offer... what does the PGA offer? Who becomes a member of the PGA and when? To me, it sounds like the same organization, but it's really not. Know what I mean? Just because of the grass roots nature, you have a lot of folks in the PDGA who would not be in the PGA (if they were the same).

Football is, unfortunately, I guess the example of what I'm talking about. There are 32 teams and with the exception of perhaps 1-3 teams a year, *any* team can beat *any* team. It's parity.

Perhaps part of it is that players are encouraged to "move up" once they place or win in a current division. A friend of mine plays well. A couple years ago he was playing advanced and winning. He was doing well. So me moved up into the Masters division. Now, he' s a good player, but now he's playing against guys who have been sponsored for like 10 years. His score in a recent tournament was 261, the masters winning was 214. There were only 25 players in the division. Advanced won with 210, the open won with 199. The Advanced masters took it with 239. Now I know he had a bad day, but perhaps he should be playing advanced masters? At least then, the field is more competitive. I'm thinking even shaving 20 strokes off his score he's at 241 which is still not competitive with the division he played.

I just feel the disparity between the first place and last place is too big.

For example, the women? best 296, last 316. That to me is a close match. That's worth watching! That has some tension.

I believe if you shoot 20 strokes off first place, that's competition. In 4 rounds, that's 5 strokes a round for you to pick up (or for them to lose). With practice and some luck, you could reverse that or at least come much closer.

When you're 30, 40 or 50 strokes off, I feel that the person in first place isn't really being challenged. That's like the top 15 PGA players taking on the college ranks.

I don't intend this to be about "I want to win", this is what's best for the game - good competition. What does the sport need? More members. If you feel like you could win a disc or two playing, isn't that more incentive to toss in a few bucks and come out and play? It just means even out the divisions. If you're only scoring 5 or fewer strokes more than the folks in your division, why move up? Odds are, you're 10 strokes or more down from the next group up.

You don't see Ken Climo having won 11 times saying, "no thanks, I can't move up so I can't accept your money or trophy. I'm just playing for fun." hahaha No. He's playing for a check, and it's my belief that there should be more than about 6 guys that can take the check away from him!

Again ... all just fun discussion. I realize that this isn't something with an easy solution - perhaps no solution, but it's interesting to hear everybody's viewpoint.

 

[Blake_T1]

part of the problem you are speaking of has a lot to do with the roots in regions as well as the significant movers/shakers in each area.

a lot of frisbee pioneers and most of the old school players in each region tend to grow somewhat closed off on whom they wish to play with and in what division.

example: a 910 rated pro grand master will probably sit at the top of the intermediate division or bottom of the advanced open division. for the sake of competition, they have the best shot to win in intermediate.

in 9 out of 10 situations if they were faced with the choice of playing intermediate, advanced, or not at all, they would likely choose not to play rather than have to play with a hodge podge of younger players that get similar scores.

that the 910 grandmaster would rather lose every weekend to the 940 rated grandmaster and walk over the 850 rated grandmaster says to me that a good number of tournament players play for many more reasons than competition.

 

[black udder]

I agree, Blake, I think many, probably most players in tournaments are playing for something other than competition. I believe that's evident in the divergence in scores and the, for the most part, good turnouts.

I believe many of the sponsored players are obligated to play in all certain rated tournaments within a specific range.

What I'd like is to play with some really great players in a tournament - some of the top guys. Problem is, if I don't throw as well as them, I don't get that card, which - duh - sort of defeats the purpose to some degree. I very well might play with some great players, but guys are sponsored for a reason (they're the disc golf "stars") and right now, you can meet and talk with the stars. I'd just like to play a round with some of 'em

I've played a few rounds with our local pro (Chris Hysell) and enjoyed it very much. He's been as kind as you could imagine to the local disc golf community. There are a couple other guys that play to his skill level and, again, they're unbelievably generous with time and advice.

It's too bad we don't have any younger pros in the area.

 

[rehder]

the only way to solve the problem you describe udder, is by having the number of players competing in a tourney to increase by 10-100 fold. This would give a sufficient amount of people across all skill ranges, and an increase in different divisions. The only downside is that a tourney would now take weeks to complete unless you can spread the tournament out to 10+ courses.

 

[black udder]

I don't know that it would need to be that big... our course can take a load of 70 odd players, the larger courses probably a few more. I think if you could get, like you said, tens more in attendance, it would help.

If we want DG to be more widespread, get more attention, get some live TV coverage, then we're going to have to accept the negatives - of which multi-day tournaments might be one. It's also been said that as the sport increases in size, the accessibility to the biggest names will probably be more difficult. As it is, you can go up to Ken Climo and have a chat, get an autograph. Try that with Tiger!

This has been a grass roots sport for many years and I don't think the intention of the DGA and PDGA is to keep it that way forever. I'm not sure how far it will get though. I do believe that more competition is a good thing though.

 

[rehder]

I am confused as to what you want. Do you want to have a big playing field where you meet a bunch of golfers at a more similar level compared to now or do you still want to be able to hang out with the pros, which there is a bigger opportunity of now?


The other side of the coin as you mentioned it, with much larger numbers of players is that it will mostly serve to benefit the professional players, because most people cant afford to take ½ a week of work to just attend a tournament. I at least know that I would get in trouble with the gf, if all my vacations where spent on dg and not on common interests :lol:

 

[black udder]

Exactly. It's going to be interesting to see how DG develops over the years.

It'd be nice to live near some of the top pros and get an opportunity to see them play or actually play a round with them. I've played with our local pro, now in Masters, and it's always been a learning opportunity as well as a lot of fun. I've also been lucky that there are several players who are not pros, but I consider pro caliber (Masters again), that are so generous with their time and knowledge.

I imagine if the game picks up substantially, that more people will be able to actually make a decent living at it. Right now I think $40k is the top money on tour - compared to how many millions for the top Golf pros? It's crazy how small this sport is in comparison.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

That question has permeated disc golf since I've been playing. Before my course was build in 1997 (I think), I used to drive to Austin 5 hours away to play twice a month. I play for fun, to be outdoors, and to hang out with friends.

I didn't even know what a PDGA was at the time. I have played less than 5 tournaments in the last 7 years, so my interest is not in competition rather than actually playing disc.

When I discovered the PDGA, I was very enthusiastic about joining just for the mini with my name on it and the disc; however, before I mailed in my check (already in a stamped envelop sitting on the counter waiting for someone to go to the post office), I noticed some of the flaming I was receiving for not being a member on the forums.

The most unfair thing that was said was that I was not a supportive player of disc golf, which quickly changed to statements that I was not a real player.

All of the sudden, the PDGA was not that important to me. I am 33, a pure recreational player. To me being 10 under is no less fun than being 10 over as long as I can be outside with people I like throwing a frisbee. I rarely play tournaments, and when I do, don't really worry about where I place.

One of the statements from my local course that has stayed with me was during a discussion about competetive players versus recreational players. I was informed that if I'm not competing, I'm not really playing. The comment that I thought was classic: "Does Tiger Woods just hit a few balls around?"
To which I replied, no but he doesn't have to work another job to do so.

 

[black udder]

that's a crying shame that folks would say things like that. Right now the PDGA is all about growth. I think a huge percentage of golfers are recreational or casual tournament players and I believe the PDGA is asking for players to join to support the sport. Doesn't matter if you compete or not, your money helps develop the sport and support the folks who are working to do that.

I say this after opening this thread and doing some online research myself.

As for the Tiger comment, you could comment with "Is my name Barry Schultz or Ken Climo?" Those guys do it for a living like Tiger, just don't make near what he does. With our contributions, the hope is that one day, folks will be able to make a good living playing DG and the rest of us will get to see it on TV.

If you were planning on joining, I would still do so (I plan to this year). Don't let the few spoilers in the bunch dissuade you from helping the sport as a whole. I'm thinking of it like my charitable donation. Instead of paying some huge fund that gets millions a year, I'm going to donate to the growth of disc golf, where my dollar is really a big deal.