Grip slo motions

[Sheep]

Gonna finally be able to shoot the slow motion stuff on grip, So if you have any weird stuff you want me to try and capture while I do all this, let me know below.

 

[timothy42b]

I waited a bit for the more experienced players to weigh in, but here is my thinking out loud.

When exactly does the disc spin? Spin rate, in the plane of the disc and relative to the ground, must start at zero and end somewhere around 900 rpm. Graph spin versus time. Is this a smooth increase, or is there an abrupt jump? Might need to paint a stripe on the disc.

Second, is the wrist neutral, active, or not relevant? Seems like the wrist can be what engineers call a pin joint, loose and able to flex under the forces. Or it can bend and extend to add power like in a short range ultimate throw. Or, the pivot can be around the finger, with a loose grip at that point.

The old hammer pound drills and the sidearm hammer drill video by uk disc golf (he's here but I forget his user name) show the disc deep in the hand and not loosely pivoting around the finger, but using a loose wrist with a lot of wrist motion possible. But there's also a suggestion (from jaani I think) that both forehand and backhand can be thrown well deliberately letting the disc rotate out, and the S&T guy has some video on the one finger grip. Is there maybe an advantage, at slower arm speeds?

 

[HyzerRoc]

How does the disc pivot around the grip in the release on bh?

It is simple enough, yet I cant really wrap my head around this concept.

I would also appreciate you showing how the finger spring works on a slomo putting video. If you have them down maybe even different versions of the finger spring.

The old hammer pound drills and the sidearm hammer drill video by uk disc golf (he's here but I forget his user name)

I think it is rhatton1 you are looking for.

 

[HB2017]

Try full-power throws with the intention of pinching the disc as lightly as possible vs as tightly as possible. I would like to see what the wrist looks like with these different intentions.

 

[Sheep]

I waited a bit for the more experienced players to weigh in, but here is my thinking out loud.

When exactly does the disc spin? Spin rate, in the plane of the disc and relative to the ground, must start at zero and end somewhere around 900 rpm. Graph spin versus time. Is this a smooth increase, or is there an abrupt jump? Might need to paint a stripe on the disc.

Second, is the wrist neutral, active, or not relevant? Seems like the wrist can be what engineers call a pin joint, loose and able to flex under the forces. Or it can bend and extend to add power like in a short range ultimate throw. Or, the pivot can be around the finger, with a loose grip at that point.

The old hammer pound drills and the sidearm hammer drill video by uk disc golf (he's here but I forget his user name) show the disc deep in the hand and not loosely pivoting around the finger, but using a loose wrist with a lot of wrist motion possible. But there's also a suggestion (from jaani I think) that both forehand and backhand can be thrown well deliberately letting the disc rotate out, and the S&T guy has some video on the one finger grip. Is there maybe an advantage, at slower arm speeds?

Unfortunately Jaani deleted his instagram account, so I lost all my ability to communicate with him now.
But were trying to grab accurate data on "what it does" vs speculation that a lot of people make. I duno who S&T is and the 1 finger grip.
Unless were talking about forehands.
Mainly focusing on backhands. Nose angle stuff on forehands is insanely easy.

I'm not doing any spin stuff though, its really hard to get the space and the light to get the above shot. Especially with this style of camera, as I don't have a short lens to be able to get it above me safely.
But not really trying to measure spin.

Trying to look at leverage, rotation out of hand, and nose angle stuff on grip.

How does the disc pivot around the grip in the release on bh?

It is simple enough, yet I cant really wrap my head around this concept.

This is one of the 2 main parts I'm video'ing.

Because one of the largest miss conceptions on the throw is "what is the nose of the disc" aka. That would be the leading edge when it releases from your hand.

The main goal here is to study grips and learn to properly teach nose down technique vs this bullshit theory that everyone talks about, because I don't think the "nose" of the disc is right off your pointer finger, its absolutely impossible that it is. Because the disc has to pivot out of your hand. So, "pour the coffee" might actually be one of the worse pieces of advice that is causing people to throw nose up.

I wanna get some of the leverage information as well so we can have a better understanding of how much of the disc spins before it leaves our hand, I'm referring to that as leverage. Because technique has a bit to do with that. but we know a broken wrist grip is bad for spin/power. But we see pro's deep pocket, hand around the disc. But were also still teaching disc between chest and hand.
Are we right? I dont think so when it comes to power.

I would also appreciate you showing how the finger spring works on a slomo putting video. If you have them down maybe even different versions of the finger spring.

Try full-power throws with the intention of pinching the disc as lightly as possible vs as tightly as possible. I would like to see what the wrist looks like with these different intentions.

Sure.

Though I have the answer for that already.

 

[RowingBoats]

If you soundly debunk 'pouring the coffee' I would love to see it. I am definitely not claiming it can't be done, but I will need to see it to fully believe it

I do think some peoples swing timing is off to the point where pouring the coffee does indeed end up nose up, but if you have anything close to the ideal hit-zone, its sound advice imo.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Just tell me directly what to do since I don't throw coffee pots or hammers...is it that move where Simon or Gannon start forward on anhyzer then snap to hyzer at the release point?

 

[HB2017]

Sure.

Though I have the answer for that already.

Answer to what? I didn't ask a question, I just want to see what the wrist looks like with light and firm grips.

 

[Sheep]

If you soundly debunk 'pouring the coffee' I would love to see it. I am definitely not claiming it can't be done, but I will need to see it to fully believe it

I do think some peoples swing timing is off to the point where pouring the coffee does indeed end up nose up, but if you have anything close to the ideal hit-zone, its sound advice imo.

Because the "nose" of the disc isn't next to your thumb and pointer finger.
So pointing that down isn't going to "put the nose down." And that's what people teach.

The unfortunate part of all of this is while I got some information like that I wanted, where we can better see what the "nose" of the disc is upon release.

As for the grip stuff, omg, I got more questions out of it than answers.

 

[Sheep]

Just tell me directly what to do since I don't throw coffee pots or hammers...is it that move where Simon or Gannon start forward on anhyzer then snap to hyzer at the release point?

Oh you talking about briefcase.

I throw so much better that way personally.
It allows you to stay relaxed SO much longer through the throw and explode harder in the hit because you're not tense.

Though I think when I did all the final stuff to get something to look at, I don't believe I did the briefcase throw. IT's not really a "grip" its more of a technique.

 

[timothy42b]

Because the "nose" of the disc isn't next to your thumb and pointer finger.
So pointing that down isn't going to "put the nose down." And that's what people teach.

I'm not sure where the nose of the disc is, at least at release.

I suspect it depends on several things. For example:

Is the arm straight at release? (yes for Paul, likely not for a large percentage of ams) (and deliberately not straight in many ultimate throws and some upshot throws - the arm may fly straight as part of followthrough but that doesn't mean it was straight when the disc left)
Is the release letting go vs ripping out (same comment, I imagine many/most ams let go)
Is the throw a max drive vs an upshot?
Is there a disc pivot or does it stay against the palm until the hand moves away?

 

[Nick Carroll]

Unfortunately Jaani deleted his instagram account, so I lost all my ability to communicate with him now.
But were trying to grab accurate data on "what it does" vs speculation that a lot of people make. I duno who S&T is and the 1 finger grip.

Jaani's Instagram is back up. I emailed him a few days ago and he was taking a break from social media. He also uploaded a couple videos in the last day on YouTube. But he's back now on all his socials.

S&T should be Spin and Throw - essentially Bradley Walker had a YouTube channel, Facebook group, and Patreon, but stopped producing content and coaching over a year ago.

 

[Sheep]

Jaani's Instagram is back up. I emailed him a few days ago and he was taking a break from social media. He also uploaded a couple videos in the last day on YouTube. But he's back now on all his socials.

S&T should be Spin and Throw - essentially Bradley Walker had a YouTube channel, Facebook group, and Patreon, but stopped producing content and coaching over a year ago.

Ahh, spin and throw.
Spin and throw kinda got knocked out of the internet.
It's what happens when you give bad info long enough.

I don't think bad intentions, but just not right direction.