Maybe some money and maybe some land

[smarkquart]

My wife and I will be coming into some inheritance soon and part of the plan is to tithe some money to our church. In the past they had approached me to try to develop some of their land into a small course. The church only approved the purchase of up to three baskets, the rest would be up to me to raise.

That long story short, the plan kind of went away. However, with this new money coming in, my wife is at least allowing me to explore the option of using that tithe money to fund the course.

So, here are the problems I will face:

The money we are thinking of tithing can only do one of two things:

1) Buy all 9 baskets but nothing else.

2) Buy 6 baskets but will be able to pay for everything else that would be considered necessities.


The land itself kind of sucks. Long time ago it used to be farm land, and because of that it is difficult for anything to grow. What few trees are on the property are nearly 30 years old, stunted, and only look like they are 10. Most of the land is just scrub brush. It is also a weird shaped plot where the county park land borders on several sides and is obviously off limits.

This can, however, create some nice artificial OB lines.

There is/ was a nice open area that used to be a softball field that I could have converted into a "driving range" style hole. However, the church has converted that open field into two soccer fields. This is mainly for tax purposes, but they are intended to be permanent, so I have lost those two proposed holes.

So, only seven of my originally proposed 9 holes can still be made. The first three holes are already small and cannot be altered. It is holes 4-7 I can alter if I want to bring it back up to 9 holes.

Also, take into consideration the courses nearby:

Orchard Trail Park - Three holes just outside of Champlin Park High School. Not bad for a gym class, but only Hole 3 actually feels like a golf hole.

Central Park - City park 9 hole course. Lots of mature trees but fairly open holes. Overcrowded on top of it being a multi-use course. Still, not a bad place to just air out your drives and unload the bag (when not busy).

Eagle's Edge - The template of how small 9 hole courses should be made. I applaud the Eagle Scouts who put the effort into making it. As a course, all holes are ace runs with singular lines, and yet some how it is always fun to play.

Elm Creek - The only 18 hole course in the area, unfortunately it is a Three Rivers course so it is only open from April to October. Also, it is on the side of a sledding and snowboarding hill, so it is long and open with some tough elevation.


When this idea first was brought to the church, my pastor had contacted the mayor of Brooklyn Park and he seemed very receptive of the idea. This was before Eagle's Edge, and he said that it would be a good idea to have a course to complement Central; for variety sake and to lessen the traffic at Central. What support was implied I never found out. I may be able to approach this again, but for my renewed proposal, if I am going to do it, I am going to move forward without assuming anything.


So my questions are:

1) Would six baskets with two tees each, effectively making it 12 holes be better than squeezing in 9 holes? Do you think a smaller course can handle dual tees meaning to be played as separate holes? Red Oak is a 10 hole course but thanks to dual tees operates as a 20 holer. The difference being that Red Oak has a ton of land to work with.

2) I have received a few mixed answers on this one, but what are people's general feeling of manufactured OB? Specifically in regards to holes running along or near the property line. Two specific holes I am thinking of is one that tees off and takes a 90 degree turn to the left. The park land is on the left of the tee and comes to a 90 degree corner, thus still running on the left side of the hole after you make your turn. The entire left side through this turn will be OB. The next hole is in the back corner of the land. If you think of it has a square clock, if you tee off at 9 o'clock, the basket will be at 12. The basket will sit 15 feet from the property line. A rhfh will skirt near or fly over the OB but fade away; a rhbh will start fine but fade toward the line; a line drive will run the basket (the hole is only 190-220 feet), but again the basket is only 15 feet from the line which when you look at it from the tee box runs 45 degrees away from it.

3) There are no real trees to speak of to create obstacles. The first hole is near the parking lot's pine trees, but they only form two lines. I can use them as a wall on the right side, but I cannot play through them. The second hole plays a little downhill, so it plays shorter than it really is. The third hole is just short, so the large bushes surrounding the hole should be okay because they are not going to be blasted by full power drives. It is again Holes 4-7 that play in the grassy shrubland. There are a few stunted trees, specifically a line that divides the southern half of the plot in half. I am going to use these as a fairway separator and not necessarily as a direct obstacle.

The question is, how do I artificially create obstacles so it is not a simple pitch and putt course? What are people's feelings about railroad ties, old telephone poles, and such to create artificial trees? Too tacky? Okay in moderation?

If I cannot make the greatest throwing holes, what are some ways to make it at least seem like a legitimate course? Are there certain aesthetic things I can do, especially considering the budget I have? I am thinking glacier rocks around the baskets and such. Maybe something along a narrow patch in the center of the fairway so you can visually see the layout of the holes (or at least the intended lines), and more than just a mowed patch. Maybe old twigs and branches laid out nicely enough to form a walking path down the middle of the fairway?

There are plenty of handy people in the church I can talk to, but I need to have a plan and what I am specifically looking for before I start approaching people.

What are some ideas I should consider considering everything I have written above?

 

[DavidSauls]

Hard to say, without knowing the area courses or seeing the land, but how about scale it back to a youth- and family-style course? This would use less land, and be a good fit for church property. It might be that few people on this website would care to play it, but I wouldn't sweat that. There's a need for a course where kids, or kids with families who don't play a lot, can go.

I have no problem with manufactured obstacles and O.B. Keeping in mind that manufactured O.B. might not be noticed, or utilized, by some players.

 

[MarkDSM]

How many church members would actually have an honest interest in playing this course?

Maintenance budget?

Change in insurance coverage?

 

[KDinIN]

Just thinking here, but in terms of manufactured obstacles, I would think that if you could landscape holes 4-7 a bit, then something like vertical flower beds, or lattice teepees almost with vining plants and flowers would fit into the space well without feeling incredibly forced. This would give some people in your church a chance to be involved that aren't necessarily "handy" but have quite the green thumb. Not to mention, some will probably help with the cost if they are able to help out.

At my church we have a large chunk of untouched land and I have wondered how plausible it would be to put in a course there. We have an old softball field with a chain link backstop. It isn't pretty, but it would make for an interesting obstacle, and if you plant the right type of vines around the backstop, you could increase the visual appeal pretty quickly.

Also, I played a course that was done on an old ball golf course that had closed down. There were some mature trees that were used well, but there were also some fairways that had been used well, mainly by mowing out the disc fairway, and letting the rest of the grasses and things get tall. I actually really enjoyed the variety that the tall grasses lent to the course, and to be honest, they were more of an obstacle than the trees we had been throwing around.

Outside of that, I wonder if you could get a bit more help and support if you put a walking trail (gravel or mulch maybe) that followed the path of the holes, (maybe it hugs the right side of the proposed hole or something...) so that it isn't just a disc golf course, but it is a space that lots of people both from the church and community could use?

 

[Steve West]

Are you doing this to give the church their most needed gift, or are you doing this to give Maple Grove the best new course?

It seems unlikely that giving the church baskets for this piece of land is the best option for either purpose.

Have you explored working with Maple Grove (or another community) to find better land? If you are willing to give 6 baskets, that really helps raise funds for 12 more. The city might match your gift, as might the MFA, the Legacy fund, etc.

 

[smarkquart]

Are you doing this to give the church their most needed gift, or are you doing this to give Maple Grove the best new course?

It seems unlikely that giving the church baskets for this piece of land is the best option for either purpose.

Have you explored working with Maple Grove (or another community) to find better land? If you are willing to give 6 baskets, that really helps raise funds for 12 more. The city might match your gift, as might the MFA, the Legacy fund, etc.

The land is technically in Brooklyn Park.

As for the money, it was the church that originally approached me about the idea because they want something for the youth, not only our church but a few local sister churches. They also want it to be an outreach to the community, much like the idea of a community garden and soccer fields they put in. While it is our church, we rent out the space to a Hmong congregation in the afternoon, so we would be outreaching to their youth as well.

The intention is to make it friendly to newer players, especially to the families that may never consider this more than an occasional recreational activity. I am not trying or expecting this to be a four or five star course, but I do need it to be something where I can get experienced players out there and interested in developing it. Part of my original proposal was for me to be actively involved in maintenance; something I would have no problem doing if it is a course I enjoy playing. I have a feeling that it is only going to happen and be played if we can make up for its obvious short comings of being a restricted space. I would hate to call it masking it flaws, but if that is the way you want to look at it, then so be it.

As for the money itself, this is a gift we are giving to the church because of our religious beliefs. It will go to the church whether we do a course or not. However, my wife thought that giving it for a course would be a better idea for us. She knows how we are not personally doing financially well as long as I teach 90 miles away. I cannot move closer to my current school, so I have to look for a new position next year. Most of the money we will receive in this inheritance will be used to pay off my master's degree and the van. We will have to watch others in the family use their money to buy fun things. We are going to give to the church, but I think my wife has brought this course idea back up because she thinks I can swallow the idea of giving money way to our church more easily if it is going to be put into something I will get enjoyment from. I know that almost sounds blasphemous, but others will enjoy it too and it will accomplish the original goals that church put forth when they first asked me about it.

Again, the land sucks, offering up so little naturally. I would love to get my hands on a digger or such and manufacture elevation. Ideally I would like to have one hole tee off from up top, I would like to have another run the length of a wide ditch, all stuff that makes the holes interested, unique, and somewhat challenging without being overbearing. I have no idea how to go about this because no doubt we would need permits to dug on top of needing the machinery and the expertise to do use it.

Other ideas would be to use some landscaping to manufacture a little elevation. Raised tee pads and or basket using paving stones and such.

Again, I am looking for affordable (key word) ideas that I could work into some kind of proposal. If I can get some kind of reasonable plan together with some kind of projected budget, then I will consider asking the city and the MFA into getting involved. Volunteers will be easier to come by, but it is everything else I am worried about.

 

[notapro]

Sounds like you are forcing it a bit... from what you described it sounds like a perfect plot of land to install a famous crappy Chicagoland niner.

 

[smarkquart]

Sounds like you are forcing it a bit... from what you described it sounds like a perfect plot of land to install a famous crappy Chicagoland niner.

That is the fear.

In the end, if I cannot do something that I would be willing to play at least once a week, I am not going to do it.

Eagle's Edge, which is in Brooklyn Park and only a few miles away, is definitely a template of how to make a small 9-hole course work. The difference between there and what I have to work with is that they have a small patch of mature trees they can weave in and out of it. I have shrubbery and stunted trees. However, if done right with aesthetic details and some creative landscaping, we can make it be a great complement to the other local courses. Central is an open city-park style course, Eagle's has shaped lines and interesting angles, and Elm Creek is all about 400+ foot power.

I have seen other local courses where they have plopped down baskets and called it good, all for the sake of having something to throw at. Unfortunately the north and western side of the Twin Cities have an abundance of these kind of courses. I want something that is unique and a pleasure to play even if it is going to be either six holes with dual pads or a short 9-holer.

 

[Steve West]

Do the sister churches have land?

 

[Broken Shoulder]

It sounds like you're going to need to landscape this thing to make it work. But, does it all have to be landscaped immediately? Could you have an outline of a multi-step process to add landscape features every year, possibly through church or other fundraising efforts? For that matter, do all the baskets have to go in at the same time? You mentioned that the vegetation is poor, but there has to be stuff that would grow there, so maybe the course just takes a few years to fill in with newly planted stuff, which would allow you to place it exactly where you want it to shape your holes. Maybe you could build a few sandtraps or water features?

I also wonder if there are any landscape designers that would be willing to consult on something like this for free or relatively cheaply, knowing that it is for a local church. (Maybe there is someone in the church already?) Maybe going outside the box to get ideas on new obstacles/terrain features for a disc golf course could be kind of cool and make the course unique in that way.