Tentative Hole Layout - Input Sought

[Doofenshmirtz]

"Practically no one" is too many people to get hit by a disc.

But, that doesn't mean the hole can't go here. Just add the cost of pulling up the pavement to the budget. Parks get major popularity points for de-paving or re-greening. Here, they were happy to take a whole (practically unused) road out of CP Adams for the sake of the course.

Otherwise, someone will always be looking for a way to popularize that under-used pavement.

This is just dumb. What you don't know about the property, you don't know. Without that knowledge, it was a valid concern and you raised it. You have now been notified that it isn't an issue, but you insist that it is. Keep going if you want, but it isn't a reasonable concern. This property doesn't get used in the way that the pavement (sidewalk and streets) imply.

As for my use of practically, I mean it in the following sense. You have practically no chance of being hit by lightning when you walk outside on a clear day. It's not zero, of course, because lightning does exist, it's just not reasonable to be so fearful of it that you refuse to go outside.

 

[txmxer]

I think there are some good ideas in here about the hole.

Beaver State had a couple of island holes with tiny islands, so I think that offers some insight to how this would play.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks, I'll go look up the coverage on that.

 

[jeverett]

Thanks, I'll go look up the coverage on that.

Yep, the BSF does have several holes similar to what you've been look at. I think hole 13(East?) might be the most similar? Here's some links to a couple:

Hole 13E:
https://youtu.be/lo7Qo5mLzcc?t=856

Hole 11E:
https://youtu.be/lo7Qo5mLzcc?t=308

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Yep, the BSF does have several holes similar to what you've been look at. I think hole 13(East?) might be the most similar? Here's some links to a couple:

Hole 13E:
https://youtu.be/lo7Qo5mLzcc?t=856

Hole 11E:
https://youtu.be/lo7Qo5mLzcc?t=308

Wow, those distances. Even for MPO those distances seem to make the only safe play a layup.

My thought on the possible hole at the top of this thread was that there would be little chance any of the MPO players around here would go for the green off the tee box due to its small size and that very small green would make the second shot still a little challenging.

Also, with the target skill level being blue or white, they would likely not be able to clear the large bush off the tee, adding a bit of a dangerous layup or go-for to try to get in position to putt for a 3. Even if not incorporated into the course, and it certainly may not be, it might be an interesting addition for tournaments, but that would be up to the TD.

 

[jeverett]

Wow, those distances. Even for MPO those distances seem to make the only safe play a layup.

My thought on the possible hole at the top of this thread was that there would be little chance any of the MPO players around here would go for the green off the tee box due to its small size and that very small green would make the second shot still a little challenging.

Also, with the target skill level being blue or white, they would likely not be able to clear the large bush off the tee, adding a bit of a dangerous layup or go-for to try to get in position to putt for a 3. Even if not incorporated into the course, and it certainly may not be, it might be an interesting addition for tournaments, but that would be up to the TD.

If you watch the round 1 footage (same layout), which had much better weather, MPO players were going for (and sometimes succeeding at) landing on the little island (or taking drop-in 3's). I'm not entirely convinced that this is a 'good' hole for MPO players (I haven't done a scoring spread analysis on that hole), but it does seem like finding a suitable distance to make this an effective par 3 (for either white or blue levels, depending on what you want) might be one route to go. e.g. What if it were shortened to around 350-370? As always, it seems like a lot of testing would be required to get the distance 'right' for the target group.

 

[Steve West]

Hole #11 was at the top for scoring spread and contribution to scoring spread of total scores, and was second in correlation to other holes.

Hole #13 was ranked eleventh for scoring spread, last for contribution to scoring spread of total scores, and fifteenth in correlation to other holes.

An island hole can be very good or poor.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

If you watch the round 1 footage (same layout), which had much better weather, MPO players were going for (and sometimes succeeding at) landing on the little island (or taking drop-in 3's). I'm not entirely convinced that this is a 'good' hole for MPO players (I haven't done a scoring spread analysis on that hole), but it does seem like finding a suitable distance to make this an effective par 3 (for either white or blue levels, depending on what you want) might be one route to go. e.g. What if it were shortened to around 350-370? As always, it seems like a lot of testing would be required to get the distance 'right' for the target group.

Maybe I'm looking at this hole wrong, but instead of looking at total distance, I was dividing this hole into two parts - the drive landing area short of the bush and the landing areas beyond the bush. Very few white or blue level players are going to be able to get past the bush. I'm a white level player on a good day with about 400 feet drive distance max - I can typically only count on about 380'. There is no way I can get over that bush.

Of course, the hole can be made longer, using the trees to either side of the teebox shown to narrow the throws off the tee in an effort to force a layup short of the bush, or it can be made shorter to give those white/blue players a chance to get over the bush.

 

[jeverett]

Hole #11 was at the top for scoring spread and contribution to scoring spread of total scores, and was second in correlation to other holes.

Hole #13 was ranked eleventh for scoring spread, last for contribution to scoring spread of total scores, and fifteenth in correlation to other holes.

An island hole can be very good or poor.

Thanks Steve! Yes, I'd always felt that hole 11 is a very good (and freaking hard!) hole. Especially as a lefty, that one is a really interesting and challenging hole, with numerous ways to approach it.

Doof, yes, if there is the possibility of adding a bit more length to the hole, I do think that would be the more interesting (and probably better scoring) option for that hole. Even at blue level, I rarely see a 'good' par 4 hole that is much under 600ft.. there is a lot of OB potential on this hole, true, but could you have the available space to add ~100ft. to the hole or so?

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks Steve! Yes, I'd always felt that hole 11 is a very good (and freaking hard!) hole. Especially as a lefty, that one is a really interesting and challenging hole, with numerous ways to approach it.

Doof, yes, if there is the possibility of adding a bit more length to the hole, I do think that would be the more interesting (and probably better scoring) option for that hole. Even at blue level, I rarely see a 'good' par 4 hole that is much under 600ft.. there is a lot of OB potential on this hole, true, but could you have the available space to add ~100ft. to the hole or so?

There should be at least another 75 feet going back. I'll have to visit again and shoot the distances.