Am I losing power?

[Kamehame]

I´ve been playing about 1,5yr and haven't ever really got any spesific advices on my drive. My max drive is about 400ft(not consistent) at the moment but I feel like I´m wasting a lot of energy somewhere...

I really appreciate any constructive comments on the video..

back (boss)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKpXAIOjaLU

side (boss)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXDbrsc3Cik
I always forgot to put on something more colorful wear... But next time I´ll just use my underwear so you can really see how the disc moves :wink:

side new (hysteria)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAMxegqMtMo

side new (star wraith, small hyzer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGZGYAyP-8w

Normal speed(newer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vooRAy4sGe8

Above(newer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpd2HjKlObY

 

[Lithicon]

Honestly, from the looks of it, we're right about the same area. And, only thing I can think of from the video is maybe the Right pec dril might help a little bit. Looks like you weren't quite getting the disc in towards your chest and tucked in toward the right pec, and didn't get wrist bounce. I dunno, I'm not the best with technique issues. The Video is very nice quality, but some others might want a different view from the side facing you, or slightly above.

I really should get come video of me doing some drives. Perhaps since it's warmed up a little I can do that with a buddies camera!

 

[Kamehame]

Go ahead mate. Since you thought we're about same level you might as well add the video here and it will make a great comparable!

I´ll add video from side as well to give a better perspective.

 

[Lithicon]

I am going to contact my buddy later to see if I can borrow his camera! So this should be interesting. Lol. Rain forecast for the next few days, so it could be a while before I get the video posted.

 

[JR]

Moi mistä löytyy sula fudiskenttä?

Your final step is way too long for the speed you're running at. I'd take at least 20 cm shorter final step. Probably 40 cm to the right with the last step landing and not leaning hard left with the whole body pivots you faster and makes your throws more accurate and repeatable. Getting the elbow farther toward the target before straightening the lower arm will increase distance in the long run if not immediately.

 

[Kamehame]

Thank you very much for the pointers! I´ll be trying those tomorrow when I hit the field again with camera.

 

[masterbeato]

your shoulders are not staying parallel long enough. meaning that they are coming in too early.

your shoulders on the reach back are away from the target (good).

pull through to the left pectoral is when they begin parallel position (good), but if you kept that elbow moving forward past the right pectoral with your shoulders still in the parallel position will be the correct way (your shoulders are coming in early meaning they are not staying parallel long enough). than after you cannot push the elbow out any farther, is when you should come through the rest of the way with your shoulders.

 

[Kamehame]

I tried it without discs and I really see the difference with delayed shoulders and elbow leading throw. The elbow feels like it has a lot more room to go farther, what JR was also pointing out to do more.

Thanks I really appreciate it!

I´m going to field in two hours and gonna get some better video as well, with some improvements I hope :!:

 

[Kamehame]

Well I got the video, but unfortunately I had too little time to practice the changes before recording so I don't think there's a lot difference. I was thinking which would be better with the last step - is it better to kinda "run through"(extra step I take forward after the throw) or more weight on the back/center which would leave me standing still and the body would rotate more.

Anyway here's the new video, btw my clothing was better this time but the sun was aligned with the field so the shadows are messing with the lines now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAMxegqMtMo

 

[JR]

Brr cold in that outfit Personally I'd say with that speed it gets difficult and leg power demanding not to step trough although a pivot with that power would be nice and fast. At least that step through protects your body. Your final step with the right leg is about 30 cm too long and watch what happens to your right knee and hip during the pivot once the right knee becomes straight. Your foot gets anchored to the ground and brakes the forward weight shift abruptly stressing your body a lot. What is more is the locking of the hip which stops you from pivoting to the right and just trips you forward.

You're missing the traction and a part of the powering of the leg pivot when your left knee becomes straight too early and the sole of the left foot ain't on the ground. You're kicking nothing with the side of the left shoe sliding, not pushing, on the ground. I know I'm going back there all the time when I run up fast :-( Not enough enough power and my final step also gets extended too far forward often. With even higher run up speeds still not helping always with weight shift forward or pivoting. A true pivot needs to start with forward and to the right pivoting left leg push helped with the right leg pivot that also turns to the right from the feet and knees.

To help avoid jamming the hip and the right leg try to move the final planting position of the right leg about 10 cm right for a disc horizontal release or even more for hyzers. Your current placement is good for a couple of degree anhyzer release.

You've only got about 10 cm to go until the elbow points straight at the target as far away from the side as possible. That's close and better than most already. Smaller nit pics: You start to accelerate the arm hard at about center of the chest -wait about 15 cm farther with the disc. You could get a little closer to the right pec with the disc and if you got the elbow farther forward before turning the chest from 90 degrees to the left of the target your currently too early rotating torso would not be in the way of the disc.

 

[Kamehame]

Great advices again mate, thank you! And yeah it was chilly!

It´s so easy and comfortable to excercise those indoor so I´ll try to get my body acquainted with it. I think I´ll need to slow down my steps little to be able to get the timing right. You also made interesting point about the foot planting indicating that I´m throwing an anhyzer. But I don't really throw a lot of anhyzers, so that's one definite hindrance!

Well anyway... a sign of better was already showing in the last session, as I was getting more accurate and consistent shots at range 330-360 feet. So atm my goal is to get those drives more confident and to 400 feet. But in order to get that I of course need to max D more than that :twisted:

 

[Lithicon]

I noticed that what Beato said earlier about the Non-throwing shoulder coming through too early was one of my main problems. I fixed it before, but wasn't exactly sure what I fixed, then I started suffering from it again, and finally realized the disc hit my chest a few times and I was throwing my non-throwing shoulder forward too soon.

Also, I noticed that my run up has slowed down dramatically compared to what I'd been doing before when I was OATing disc out the wazoo. I can throw Roc's 350' now with just a simple slow run up, but it's weird because throwing max distance feels different, and I can't quite nail it down now. My final step feels way too long, but trying to fix it doesn't seem to work, or help my distance. I can throw smaller diameter disc much better now in the 350+ region. Where I could easily throw my Wraith's and Nukes well into 380-410 range. Now I'm struggling to do so, I know it's because I've changed my form some. But, this is helping me some!

Eventually I hope we'll both catch on to those little things we've both missing and start exploding well into the 400+ range. Cause, at this point it seems like those little details are what are holding us back!
I've felt it coming, and days where I can hit 430' effortlessly. But, those days are few and far between. One day I'll be able to claim 450'+! :wink:

 

[Kamehame]

Yeah well here's some action from last mid-summer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIVxIKD7LhE


There's some heavy early shoulder rotation. But like you said It's more about those details at the moment, and they might even be the hardest :x

...and the most enjoyable.

 

[JR]

You're welcome! That footage from last summer has the run direction, foot placement and final step length plus knee bend that you want. The only thing I'd change there was to push more rotationally to pivot better to the right instead of stepping through that may require more muscle tension in stiffening the right leg so that your knee won't bend and throw you forward instead of rotation to the right. And adding more speed.

Try to see how fast you can run and not suffer in form. That's your decision line on a medium tight or tighter fairway vs distance. Anything longer and you need to decide if you want to push by trying to go farther or if you're content with sure placement with good, not maximum, distance. In an open place feel free to rip it.

 

[Kamehame]

Okay, got to fields again yesterday and tried out some of the new techniques I´ve been advised here. Shortening the last step is a pain... Also tried the stepping right and I have to say it worked out somewhat.. I think I got faster pivot from it but I was only getting these huge hyzer shots. Even though this will help me in the future making those hyzer-shots, I´m wondering should I be able to make flat shots with the same foot placing(right) as well?

 

[JR]

Other reasons beside the leg placement can cause a hyzer so without seeing it's hard to say. To much right placement will force you hyzer so you need to find the proper placement for flat releases between anny and hyzer. Every 5 cm counts here. The optimum placement for flat releases is small. One reason for Blake favoring hyzers for placement. To be accurate with flat shots they need to be perfect to less than a degree deviation from horizontal or the disc can wind up several meters off course.

 

[Kamehame]

I think I´ve got my last step a bit more to the right now so the step is somewhat straight now rather than to the left. I added some videos again, one with normal speed and one from above. The above video is more like a test run to see if it's any good, but I think it's a refreshing point of view.

Normal speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vooRAy4sGe8

Above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpd2HjKlObY

 

[JR]

Edited to remove a mistake.

You're running from rear left to front right and the legs are positioned for a mild hyzer. Check my reply from today to jori at keskustelu.frisbeeliitto.com in the pimp my drive thread. Your final step length is for a faster run up and a harder left leg push while keeping the left leg on the ground with the sole side so that the push moves you weight forward instead of slipping on the side of the shoe toward the right. In the above video you bring the disc to the left pec when the chest points 70 degrees away from the target. That forces you to pull from farther away and the disc is far away from the right pec robbing power of the late acceleration. The disc should come to the left pec when the torso is 90 degrees away from the target.

I'd still move the right leg 10-15 cm right and tilt at the waist forward so that you stop throwing nose up and high with stalls. In this respect the side view did not look pretty.

 

[Kamehame]

Thanks again for the reply JR.

I think more time and repetition will be needed to intergrate these chances to my throw. But I have a question about the nose down issue. I can throw nose down but the problem is that I get these really low shots(or rapidly falling) that usually land way before they are ment to. So I´m usually throwing as horizontal as I can. I´ve measured my disc speed to around 102km/h is that too slow for a disc to keep it going?

What's throwing nose down really about? Are there some discs that are better to be thrown nose down, should I aim higher when doing this? I tried to find tutorial for this but they all seemed more like for a thrower who has just begun and throwing those high hyzer shots.

Or maybe I should start a new thread about this?

 

[JR]

Congratulations! You have enough muscle power in the arm to keep the disc nose down then. Definitely throw higher. The idea is like throwing down below the horizon from a hill top. once you throw high and have the front of the disc lower than the rear the disc gets free distance increase thanks to gravity. 102 is great! I'd think that you may have pushed the disc too far wrist down or had more weight forward compared to the latest side view video. That was seriously nose up weight back.