Let me put my disclaimer right up front so their is no doubt. I'm a Hole Sponsor at Idlewild and work on the course daily. However, I've played many many courses and understand what each course offers a variety of skill levels. I live in the exact center of Idlewild and Banklick...aka... Lincoln Ridge.
Let me start out by saying that I've played both courses about the same number of times...which is about 1 gazillion. I know each hole on each course better than most of you know your wives and/or girlfriends. Thus let me cut to the bone on one point:
You criticize Idlewild for not having anywhere to 'get the testosterone flowing' versus Banklick. Ok...There is ONE hole at Banklick I've never deuced. #24 is over 500 feet and I simply can't throw over about 400...it is a pretty easy 3 and the only hole most 900+ rated players can't reach. Hole #11 is slightly uphill and out of my range..I need a nice 60 foot putt to hit a deuce there...but the rest of the course is simply deuce city. If you don't shoot a 10 down there in Open...you are getting left behind. BTW...24 has been aced lately...and I've seen chains hit 3 times.
Idlewild by contrast..let's see...Hole #1 you can come out of your shoes if you like..I've seen a few 1000 rated pros blow past the 686 feet...but I can count them on 1 hand. Hole #2...you can throw an Avenger SS or Road Runner on a nice 300+ foot turn over...or simply roll it..or a nice strong side arm...which gets you to the SHORT basket...then another toss across the pond for the long basket...I've seen some big arms go OVER THE TREES from the tee to the long basket...400+ feet over trees and water to reach a green that has water in front and to the left.
#3 from the LONG placement you can come out of your shoes on...but if you go left....Oscar Bravo.
#4 is a tight turnover short must deuce hole.
#5 is where you are probably talking about a 200ft putter shot...yep..that is the safe play for someone without skill or gonads...you can power a forehand halfway up the hill..throw a hard turn over shot halfway up the hill...or get this..most 1000 rated players GO OVER THE TOP...bet you didn't even think of that shot...I've seen #5 deuced many times...my personal best is a 3.
#6..I guess you miss read this as a putter to the top of the hill at 150 feet...another putter to the mouth at about 190 feet..then a forehand around the corner at another 150 feet...well guess what...you hyzer flip a beat up disc off the tee and hit the mouth in one..then forehand around the corner and walk away with a 3 if you got guts.
#7..my Adopt-A-Hole...you simply have to hit the Tiger Vision button on the joypad and either put that forehand down there or put a beautiful comet shot right under the basket...an almost Must Deuce hole.
#8...tight fairway drive...300 feet to where you need to be for your upshot...Oh..another 300 foot shot.
#9...picturesque ace run...the only one with more adrenaline for me is Hole #1 on the temp West Course in Columbus, OH Hoover Dam.
#10..I guess you threw a putter 200 feet to the corner..then 300 feet to the pin on your approach...well...one of the pulls is a 300 foot pull...but most of us turn that corner...last year Avery Jenkins shocked everyone and went over the top on a monster turn over and darn near parked the basket.
#11..one of the most beautiful shots in all of disc golf...when it is on Wii Disc Golf the commentators will mention it so...and it is over 300 feet.
#12..anything bad you want to say about this hole...I'll agree with...we plan on cutting a few dead trees..and backing it up 60 feet...if I have my way.
#13...I know you weren't shooting at the short basket were you? You gotta man up and go for the long basket...over the hill...down across the creek..to a non-island green...a very hard Par 4 and a beautiful shot. over 300 feet
#14..you probably played the short tee across from #13 short basket..the long tee is down the hill after #13 long. It is simply put everything you got in it up that wooded hill that just won't end..and then a full pull forehand up some more incline...yep...over 300 feet.
#15...if you can only throw 300 feet...you get to come out of your shoes THREE TIMES here.
#16...short basket is over 300 feet...it is a beautiful long ace run with an XL or Buzzz..the long basket is tricky...gotta either keep it turned over or throw a bomb of a forehand...gotta stay right of the creek and left of the Mando..yep..it's an island green...but it doesn't really alter scoring.
#17 is a nice full pull midrange up the hill..and tight.
#18...I guess you could throw a putter 200 feet to the top...but be a man...rare back and show me you can throw it 400+ straight as an arrow..or atleast 300feet...I've seen shots here at 500+ feet to the mouth...not me...but I subscribe to the Buzzz, Buzzz, Buzzz, putt theory of tournament golf...but I'm no 1000+ rate golfer.
I count 13 holes where you can get your juices flowing...not counting your 2 extra chunks on #15....so the arguement of no place to throw hard is blown out of the water.
NEXT arguement:
Too many trees...I guess you like open courses...I can't argue there..it is a tight course...some of us love it tight...some like to go throw 18 long holes in an open field...to each his own.
NEXT arguement: Island Greens
Some people don't like the fact you have to think before you throw. I know a lot of people that won't play any OB on any course...they step out of the woods into the fairway to take their next shot. Technically #3 isn't an island hole...it is a peninsula. #2 has about 100 acres behind it...#11 is the smallest green I know of..and there has been heated debate on the subject. #13 long isn't....#15 is..because people were simply bombing drivers from the top of the hill...you can be off to the right 150 feet and raining down on the people on #16 tee or fairway. #16 short plays as an island in tournaments...#16 long plays as an island anytime. So really two holes.
NEXT arguement: 1/4 of the holes are < 200 feet.
#9 is 192 feet...tightly framed by trees...a beautiful shot. Trees dictate that you don't have to add linear feet to add difficulty. #12 is 142 feet and pretty tight. You really need a breather on #9 before you get into the difficulty of #10 and #11..and then a breather at #12 before you get into #13 and #14 long..same with #4 leading up to the tough #5 and #6. However... 18 holes divided by 2 holes < 200 feet is 9...which means 1/9th of the holes are < 200 feet.
Next arguement: It's not a 'Professional Level Course'
You played it like an Am. Idlewild is simply the best course I've ever seen...and I haven't seen them all...that can showcase greatness from a top rated player that is having a career day. It is the type of course where an Avery Jenkins, Tyler Horne, Brad Schick, Matt Blakely, and others can come out...and be on fire...and have other 1000 rated players shaking their heads in disbelief at the shots they are able to pull off. It can showcase greatness like no other course....it can also humble the mighty...unless you play it scared like an Am.
Oh..and you say island greens are a 'gimmick' to bump up the Par and SSA and then you mention Renny Gold in the same breath? I don't know if you know this...but Gold Ropes are GIMMICKY to increase Par and Course SSA on an otherwise boring piece of land...sure...Renny Gold is awesome and wonderful to play..but don't call stone walled greens with mulch gimmicky and then say Gold Ropes making tight OB is all natural.
A 75 FROM THE LONGS is right about where you should be...about a 950 rated round. The thing about Idlewild is...you can make mistakes...and you can come back from them...it isn't your normal deuce or die course that most people love...where you miss one or two putts and your day is done. Idlewild punishes greed...it rewards good shots...but I've seen people be extremely greedy and rewarded heavily. I guess you played it too safe...and girls don't put up much of a fight if you are telling them they are right while they yell at you....they tend not to swing hard when you admit you are wrong...They lose respect for you but end the fight quickly when you cower in front of them.....
But how about pay Idlewild another visit...I'll meet you there....call it by another girls name...show it you have a strong pimp hand...rare back and unleash the fury...show it you are the man..and you'll either emerge from the woods feeling like god...or a broken man.
Let me start out by saying that I've played both courses about the same number of times...which is about 1 gazillion. I know each hole on each course better than most of you know your wives and/or girlfriends. Thus let me cut to the bone on one point:
You criticize Idlewild for not having anywhere to 'get the testosterone flowing' versus Banklick. Ok...There is ONE hole at Banklick I've never deuced. #24 is over 500 feet and I simply can't throw over about 400...it is a pretty easy 3 and the only hole most 900+ rated players can't reach. Hole #11 is slightly uphill and out of my range..I need a nice 60 foot putt to hit a deuce there...but the rest of the course is simply deuce city. If you don't shoot a 10 down there in Open...you are getting left behind. BTW...24 has been aced lately...and I've seen chains hit 3 times.
Idlewild by contrast..let's see...Hole #1 you can come out of your shoes if you like..I've seen a few 1000 rated pros blow past the 686 feet...but I can count them on 1 hand. Hole #2...you can throw an Avenger SS or Road Runner on a nice 300+ foot turn over...or simply roll it..or a nice strong side arm...which gets you to the SHORT basket...then another toss across the pond for the long basket...I've seen some big arms go OVER THE TREES from the tee to the long basket...400+ feet over trees and water to reach a green that has water in front and to the left.
#3 from the LONG placement you can come out of your shoes on...but if you go left....Oscar Bravo.
#4 is a tight turnover short must deuce hole.
#5 is where you are probably talking about a 200ft putter shot...yep..that is the safe play for someone without skill or gonads...you can power a forehand halfway up the hill..throw a hard turn over shot halfway up the hill...or get this..most 1000 rated players GO OVER THE TOP...bet you didn't even think of that shot...I've seen #5 deuced many times...my personal best is a 3.
#6..I guess you miss read this as a putter to the top of the hill at 150 feet...another putter to the mouth at about 190 feet..then a forehand around the corner at another 150 feet...well guess what...you hyzer flip a beat up disc off the tee and hit the mouth in one..then forehand around the corner and walk away with a 3 if you got guts.
#7..my Adopt-A-Hole...you simply have to hit the Tiger Vision button on the joypad and either put that forehand down there or put a beautiful comet shot right under the basket...an almost Must Deuce hole.
#8...tight fairway drive...300 feet to where you need to be for your upshot...Oh..another 300 foot shot.
#9...picturesque ace run...the only one with more adrenaline for me is Hole #1 on the temp West Course in Columbus, OH Hoover Dam.
#10..I guess you threw a putter 200 feet to the corner..then 300 feet to the pin on your approach...well...one of the pulls is a 300 foot pull...but most of us turn that corner...last year Avery Jenkins shocked everyone and went over the top on a monster turn over and darn near parked the basket.
#11..one of the most beautiful shots in all of disc golf...when it is on Wii Disc Golf the commentators will mention it so...and it is over 300 feet.
#12..anything bad you want to say about this hole...I'll agree with...we plan on cutting a few dead trees..and backing it up 60 feet...if I have my way.
#13...I know you weren't shooting at the short basket were you? You gotta man up and go for the long basket...over the hill...down across the creek..to a non-island green...a very hard Par 4 and a beautiful shot. over 300 feet
#14..you probably played the short tee across from #13 short basket..the long tee is down the hill after #13 long. It is simply put everything you got in it up that wooded hill that just won't end..and then a full pull forehand up some more incline...yep...over 300 feet.
#15...if you can only throw 300 feet...you get to come out of your shoes THREE TIMES here.
#16...short basket is over 300 feet...it is a beautiful long ace run with an XL or Buzzz..the long basket is tricky...gotta either keep it turned over or throw a bomb of a forehand...gotta stay right of the creek and left of the Mando..yep..it's an island green...but it doesn't really alter scoring.
#17 is a nice full pull midrange up the hill..and tight.
#18...I guess you could throw a putter 200 feet to the top...but be a man...rare back and show me you can throw it 400+ straight as an arrow..or atleast 300feet...I've seen shots here at 500+ feet to the mouth...not me...but I subscribe to the Buzzz, Buzzz, Buzzz, putt theory of tournament golf...but I'm no 1000+ rate golfer.
I count 13 holes where you can get your juices flowing...not counting your 2 extra chunks on #15....so the arguement of no place to throw hard is blown out of the water.
NEXT arguement:
Too many trees...I guess you like open courses...I can't argue there..it is a tight course...some of us love it tight...some like to go throw 18 long holes in an open field...to each his own.
NEXT arguement: Island Greens
Some people don't like the fact you have to think before you throw. I know a lot of people that won't play any OB on any course...they step out of the woods into the fairway to take their next shot. Technically #3 isn't an island hole...it is a peninsula. #2 has about 100 acres behind it...#11 is the smallest green I know of..and there has been heated debate on the subject. #13 long isn't....#15 is..because people were simply bombing drivers from the top of the hill...you can be off to the right 150 feet and raining down on the people on #16 tee or fairway. #16 short plays as an island in tournaments...#16 long plays as an island anytime. So really two holes.
NEXT arguement: 1/4 of the holes are < 200 feet.
#9 is 192 feet...tightly framed by trees...a beautiful shot. Trees dictate that you don't have to add linear feet to add difficulty. #12 is 142 feet and pretty tight. You really need a breather on #9 before you get into the difficulty of #10 and #11..and then a breather at #12 before you get into #13 and #14 long..same with #4 leading up to the tough #5 and #6. However... 18 holes divided by 2 holes < 200 feet is 9...which means 1/9th of the holes are < 200 feet.
Next arguement: It's not a 'Professional Level Course'
You played it like an Am. Idlewild is simply the best course I've ever seen...and I haven't seen them all...that can showcase greatness from a top rated player that is having a career day. It is the type of course where an Avery Jenkins, Tyler Horne, Brad Schick, Matt Blakely, and others can come out...and be on fire...and have other 1000 rated players shaking their heads in disbelief at the shots they are able to pull off. It can showcase greatness like no other course....it can also humble the mighty...unless you play it scared like an Am.
Oh..and you say island greens are a 'gimmick' to bump up the Par and SSA and then you mention Renny Gold in the same breath? I don't know if you know this...but Gold Ropes are GIMMICKY to increase Par and Course SSA on an otherwise boring piece of land...sure...Renny Gold is awesome and wonderful to play..but don't call stone walled greens with mulch gimmicky and then say Gold Ropes making tight OB is all natural.
A 75 FROM THE LONGS is right about where you should be...about a 950 rated round. The thing about Idlewild is...you can make mistakes...and you can come back from them...it isn't your normal deuce or die course that most people love...where you miss one or two putts and your day is done. Idlewild punishes greed...it rewards good shots...but I've seen people be extremely greedy and rewarded heavily. I guess you played it too safe...and girls don't put up much of a fight if you are telling them they are right while they yell at you....they tend not to swing hard when you admit you are wrong...They lose respect for you but end the fight quickly when you cower in front of them.....
But how about pay Idlewild another visit...I'll meet you there....call it by another girls name...show it you have a strong pimp hand...rare back and unleash the fury...show it you are the man..and you'll either emerge from the woods feeling like god...or a broken man.