Disaster, or just boring?

[Armus Patheticus]

I'm only toying around here. While there has been mention of a course being potentially put in this park in a few years, I have no idea if anything will ever happen or what parts of the park might be available to use. I am sure that I will not be involved in the design process. That hasn't stopped me from scheming up and playing this "imaginary" course. I picked the part of the park without walking trails, which is unfortunately also the part without trees. Still, there is a great honking dam to play on, and I've found these conceptual holes to be entertaining and somewhat challenging.

Since I have played only 20 courses, and none of them featured any significant water, I'm curious to know if this "design" is completely out of line with reason. I have played these "holes" about 15 times now without losing a disc, but I'm a conservative player by nature. The distances below were obtained with Google maps ruler tool. The elevations are guesstimated, though I'm going to take an inclinometer out there and check my guesses soon just for the fun of it. Yes, there are 10 holes. Odd perhaps, but that's what I felt there was room for.

3,110' total. Roads and spillways OB

#1 - 300', 25' uphill
#2 - 330', 10' downhill, over +8' ridge at the 1/3 mark
#3 - 155', 5' downhill, 8' mown fairway, between 2 cedars halfway, 15' long is wet
#4 - 325', 20' uphill, on ridge of dam, 50' right is wet, 20' long is 15' drop into spillway
#5 - 235', 25' downhill, long is thickly wooded steep bank to pond
#6 - 315', 50' uphill, 160' +10' water carry, green is 30' dia. circle with 5'-15'dropoff into lake or spillway on 3 sides
Alternate #6 - 275', 45' uphill, same green
#7 - 500', across deep valley, net 15' downhill, halfway is 45' downhill
#8 - 420', level
#9 - 180', level, green is on 8' wide ridge of dam, right is 12' drop into 2nd spillway, short is wet or on steep rocks, long is steep neverending slope with potential for 150' 40' downhill rollaway
#10 - 350', net 35' downhill, 290' mark is -50'

Map

 

[JC17393]

On first glance, 10 looks like a whole lot of trouble. Crossing hole 7 and passing tee 6 just seem like traffic jams waiting to happen.

If it's just something you play for fun to get practice, no big deal with crossing fairways. But if the idea is to make it a permanent course and attract players to it, it has to be more than just a random collection of fun holes. It has to be able to handle a full crowd without players needing to wait on players on other holes or needing to keep their heads on a swivel when they're standing at the tee.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

I thought about that. Players on 7 who blew their drive way left and players on tee 6 would be in easy range of an errant throw from 10. My sissy-throws on 10 have all landed well out of the way, near that little ditch visible on the map, but that means nothing. Also working against (and for?) me is the illusion, in person, of distance between these playing areas due to the great differences in elevation.

Then again, I've never seen a "full crowd" on any course in this area, and a course here specifically (isolated, rural) would be relatively quite dead. Dunno if that means a bad hole can pass or not, but it's what I'm thinking about.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Also, of course, basket 10 could easily be put farther left, away from 6. I was trying to include the steep woods as a little bit of an obstacle.

 

[JC17393]

I thought about that. Players on 7 who blew their drive way left and players on tee 6 would be in easy range of an errant throw from 10. My sissy-throws on 10 have all landed well out of the way, near that little ditch visible on the map, but that means nothing. Also working against (and for?) me is the illusion, in person, of distance between these playing areas due to the great differences in elevation.

Then again, I've never seen a "full crowd" on any course in this area, and a course here specifically (isolated, rural) would be relatively quite dead. Dunno if that means a bad hole can pass or not, but it's what I'm thinking about.

Good rule of thumb, especially if you're dealing with a public park, is safety first, second, third, and fourth. If there's a chance of a busy day, even if it's once a year, the course should be able to accommodate it without issue. Picture the worst shot imaginable on a given hole, and then assume there will be shots worse than that.

But it's really not even a matter of just errant shots on 10 (or 7). People have to cross the fairway of one to play the other, which means they're in the firing line of potentially "good" throws too. While it can be a safety issue, it's also an annoyance to have to wait for players on another hole to clear out of the way before you can play the hole you're on.

 

[sisyphus]

How about a twelve hole course?

Start at the further end of the parking lot (past #9) with a shortie that is forced out of the woods toward the water & has to fade left to right to a basket back at the woodline 'near' the 9th tee. Then renumber: 9 becomes #2, 10->#3, and shoots more directly downhill to the bend in the road where 41 & 141 merge (road long OB, of course), add a #4 shooting beside Lick Run Rd (141) and just entering the woods, but protected from the path beside the pond. 1 becomes #5, progressing as you've got 'em, finishing with 8 (#12).

That adds a couple of holes that help with transitions, incorporate trees, and realigns the two crossing holes only where the flight would typically be way overhead for folks going down the fairways. Might have to shorten hole #11 (7) a little so the angle begins to eliminate the rhbh hyzer line 'interacting' with the #3 (10) tee & #2 (9) basket. Still have crossing fairways, but tees and baskets are safer...

ps: there WILL be a lot of lost discs here!

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Good ideas. 10 would need to be shortened significantly to keep well away from 41, a relatively busy, high speed road. The two additional holes would be in the 150 - 200' range, but with some shape to them... not bad.

Lost discs were my primary concern, as far as enjoying the experience goes. Can anyone refer me to some comparably wet courses, so I can research user response to materially hazardous design?

 

[DavidSauls]

Among other things, it doesn't look like you're making much use of the few trees that are present, to shape shots. Of course, I don't know what those trees look like, or what liberty you'd have to remove limbs, etc.

It's not really clear to me whether you're trying to use the water as an exciting element, or avoid it in an already-small parcel. I will say that having water behind the basket is the least-effective way to make it a danger, since people don't overthrow baskets that often, and particularly when there's danger behind it.

As others have pointed out, it looks like there's plenty of chance for bad throws to go into or beyond roads. It looks like this could be a very windy course at times, increasing those odds.

Is the spillway between 5 and 6 walkable? Can you retrieve discs from it, or even run a hole across it?

Not sure what constitutes comparably wet courses. The ones that come to my mind are higher-level courses which challenge or push players to risk losing discs. Probably not comparable, if you're targeting a course to more casual players. Trophy Lakes is a very wet course, and uses water in all kinds of interesting ways. At Stoney Hill, we have a couple of dangerous water shots on each layout, too.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Id prefer some shorter technical holes mixed in.

Are those areas being thrown over and at baskets free of public traffic? Shorten them or change tee/basket placement if so.

Id seek some professional advice if you havent already.

 

[Stardoggy]

Why not shorten 7 to the edge of the valley (like right on the edge of it), have 9 play completely across the valley and then push 10 out into the field and have the basket tucked in the woods?

 

[Clyde Frog]

Glad im not the only one

Although I will probably have no say as to where, when and how a course will be built. I find myself on google earth Laying out holes at local parks. I absolutely love working my brain, figuring out how I could fit 1 to 3 miles of tee boxes and baskets away from playgrounds, up and down hills, over water and through trees.

Now that i know other people do this, I will probably submit one of my designs into our board and hopefully will get to become part of building the course from the boxes to the baskets.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm pretty sure I'd play #6 backyards. Big downhill over a lake with a basket on the far side? My kind of excitement.

Not saying it would be a good idea, just that I'd do it.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

DavidSauls - I guess I'm trying to use the water to create tension, even if it isn't especially hazardous. The two holes with water long would be easy to overshoot, meaning that cautious players might be too cautious and have to make long putts. Hole 4 would be the most challenging, waterwise, as left-handers could fade into the lake, and weak right-handers (like me) who try to bite off too much or turn over will get punished.

Use of trees. There aren't a lot of options, though your mention of playing 6 backward gives me the thought that 8 might be better backward too, to force some shaping of the drive instead of coasting into the woods and approaching around trees. The trees at the end of 10 could definitely be used, as could those around 3.

6 backward, sounds fun. But that little 30' circle is just begging for a basket at its center.

The spillway between 5 & 6 is accessible for much of the year, though it is often wet and slimy and requires some clambering.

Stardoggy - Putting 7 (tee or basket) at the edge of the valley wouldn't eliminate any of the traffic or safety concerns, especially since that entire valley is blind from 9. Part of my reason for making 10 long was to eliminate potential throws onto 41.

AFTC - "Id prefer some shorter technical holes mixed in." So would I but I dunno where to get 'em.

"Are those areas being thrown over and at baskets free of public traffic? Shorten them or change tee/basket placement if so." Don't know what this means.

Thanks for your comments everyone. I, as you can see, am an ignoramus trying to have some fun. It's good to see things I've missed, keep them coming if you see more.

 

[Billy K2]

How about a twelve hole course?

Start at the further end of the parking lot (past #9) with a shortie that is forced out of the woods toward the water & has to fade left to right to a basket back at the woodline 'near' the 9th tee. Then renumber: 9 becomes #2, 10->#3, and shoots more directly downhill to the bend in the road where 41 & 141 merge (road long OB, of course), add a #4 shooting beside Lick Run Rd (141) and just entering the woods, but protected from the path beside the pond. 1 becomes #5, progressing as you've got 'em, finishing with 8 (#12).

That adds a couple of holes that help with transitions, incorporate trees, and realigns the two crossing holes only where the flight would typically be way overhead for folks going down the fairways. Might have to shorten hole #11 (7) a little so the angle begins to eliminate the rhbh hyzer line 'interacting' with the #3 (10) tee & #2 (9) basket. Still have crossing fairways, but tees and baskets are safer...

ps: there WILL be a lot of lost discs here!

This is a really good idea, and would probably work the best. Your current design seems messy, and #10 is a REALLY BAD idea.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

AFTC - "Id prefer some shorter technical holes mixed in." So would I but I dunno where to get 'em.

"Are those areas being thrown over and at baskets free of public traffic? Shorten them or change tee/baske so." Don't know what this means.

Thanks for your comments everyone. I, as you can see, am an ignoramus trying to have some fun. It's good to see things I've missed, keep them coming if you see more.

Basically shorten longer holes into 2 separate ones and utilize the features of the land to force a technical shot. Tee placement with tree making a bh anny or fh. Short downhills with risk of going long and uphill comebacks etc... Hard to say without seeing it'

As far as the public spaces.. Are they free of people? Do the areas get heavy use from park goers? If so those areas need to be avoided and no mixing of flying discs with people using the other parts of the park space.