Need advice on drivers

[dave30]

I am a decent (not great) disc golf player. I have some questions about drivers.

When I throw my Avenger SS, it frequently heads right and just keeps going and tips over towards the right without coming back. It kind of flips over and ends up hitting the ground and rolling.

When I thow my Wraith, it goes straighter at first than the Avenger SS, but fades left way too much than I want it to.

I used to be able to keep the Avenger SS on a straight line with a slight fade left, but now almost everytime I throw it; it heads off to the right and stays there.

What am I doing wrong? Also, any disc suggestions that might work better for me? I don't throw really long, but I'm not a wimpy thrower either!

By the way, I am an excellent putter! It's just a problem for me to get that drive in a decent spot!

 

[valkyrie]

It sounds like an issue with form, but i will let other people expalin it to you, as they are better at it than me.

Edit: Welcome to DGCR.

 

[dave30]

Glad to be here! I know I need work on my form, but can't figure out how I get such radically different results from two similar discs.

 

[valkyrie]

Glad to be here! I know I need work on my form, but can't figure out how I get such radically different results from two similar discs.

Well, a Wraith is quite a bit more stable than an Avenger SS.

 

[Daddy-O]

Discs will tend to go more to the right as they get beat up or "break in". So if it used to fly good for you, over time it will become more understable.
I wasn't really a fan of the Avenger SS because it was too flippy like you describe. If you want to make it work better, make sure you through it as a hyzer (right side above left, follow through with arm high) and it should flatten out and fly straighter for you.
You could also try a disc somewhere between those two in stability, I'd suggest a Valkyrie.

 

[keltik]

how long have you been playing? How far do you throw? and p.s. the A-SS and Wraith are nothing alike.

often what happens is that a new player starts with a flippy type disc like the A-SS. It flies straight for the beginning noodle arm but as power develops (and the disc wears) it turns into a roller/turnover disc. this is where the Teebird comes in. It is unique because it is a true stable disc. this means that the disc will not turn/flip for a wide range of throwing speeds. "speed stable" discs are stable->overstable when thrown under their cruising speed range (many of the new high speed drivers). the only time a TB flips is when it is torqued over or it is a destroyed disc. but a TeeBird is a useful disc for any type of player, a beginner a pro a backhander a forehander, anyone! That is why it is so popular and heavily lauded.

also you may want to try slower drivers in general. I suggest a JLS, an XL, a Cyclone and a Cheetah.

 

[sirflicksalot]

throw the avenger with less power and on the wraith predict the fade

 

[dave30]

Thanks for the responses. I have only been playing for a couple of years. I do think I have developed more power so that is probably why the Avenger turns over. I am not as up to date on discs as most on here. That's why I'm here.....to learn and get better! Thanks again!

 

[Pink Elephant]

How far are you throwing your Avenger and Wraith?

 

[dave30]

About 280 to 300 ft. if I can keep it straight!

 

[volmed10]

Do you drive with midrange discs or putters?

If so, what specific discs are you using, and could you describe the flight pattern of the mids and then the putters? This will help diagnose the problem (if there is one) faster than anything else.

 

[keltik]

please refer to said disc as Avenger-SS or A-SS. it is nothing like the real Avenger.

 

[Pink Elephant]

My guess is that the Wraith is too much disc, you probably don't have the snap to get it to do what it's intended. The Avenger SS, either it's beat up, or maybe you are torquing it over. I had a problem with turning over my discs, I thought it was because I was so strong, but as my form improved, I wasn't turning over the discs anymore. I can throw an Xpress (pretty understable disc) 310-320 without it turning over now, where before I was turning it over.

 

[sidewinder22]

The A-SS(lol) is quite different from a Wraith.

Its called torque monkey syndrome, most newer players go through this(myself included) and developed it from throwing really fast discs with no snap. Best way to fix this is to learn to throw putters and mids. You will be amazed how far you can throw a putter once you learn some decent technique. Read the links and watch vids and do the drills and then enjoy some snap:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16139
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

 

[adam423]

Throw the Avenger-ss on a hyzer angle, it should flip up flat, go right a little and then fade back. Put the Wraith away for now, if you want the big fade at the end get a Banshee, Firebird, or Predator.

 

[stsren]

Here's my take...

The Avenger SS after a break-in can do that if you have too much speed or snap or Out-of-Axis-Torque (turns over right for RHBH)...
The Wraith is fading so much because you don't have the arm speed or snap required to have it hold the line, so it is stalling and fading very hard.

You need something between the Avenger SS and Wraith for stability (and you need to throw your Avenger not-so-hard or with a hyzer release angle = / )... I recommend Stalker (1.1 stability) or XL (1.5 stability) as the Avenger SS is a 0.5 stability. Try one or both of these...

Valkyrie is a fun disc, too...

 

[dave30]

After reading all these responses, I can't wait to get back out there! Also, my Avenger SS is pretty beat up!

I do throw my mid-range and putter on some holes. My putter goes straight with a slight fade left towards the basket if I throw it right. My mid-range is similar with a bit more fade. I have thrown a Buzz and an Innova Cobra mid-range. My putter is a Birdie (I like the ridge on it for my thumb on shorter putts).

I watched all the youtube videos on putting and practiced a lot. I feel very comfortable with my putting right now.

 

[volmed10]

After reading all these responses, I can't wait to get back out there! Also, my Avenger SS is pretty beat up!

I do throw my mid-range and putter on some holes. My putter goes straight with a slight fade left towards the basket if I throw it right. My mid-range is similar with a bit more fade. I have thrown a Buzz and an Innova Cobra mid-range. My putter is a Birdie (I like the ridge on it for my thumb on shorter putts).

I watched all the youtube videos on putting and practiced a lot. I feel very comfortable with my putting right now.

First, the videos that sidewinder22 posted are not in reference to putting, but rather regarding the production of more snap to increase your maximum driving distance. Work on this.... seriously. You'll never be able to drive for significant distance consistently if you can't easily snap a disc.

The reason I asked about driving with putter and mids is because if you are throwing with any OAT, you will easily turn and burn your mids (unless it's a Gator or Drone) and you'll especially fry your putters. Since you aren't driving them hard into the ground, and it sounds like you are producing a proper flight path with the putters you mentioned, it sounds less likely that you have bad OAT as the root of your driving evils.

One more thing about driving technique.... are you using relatively the same motion for driving your A-SS and Wraith as you are your putters/mids? Or are you straining more and attempting to put a lot more power into the throw?

As for suggestions for drivers and the current issues with your disc assortment, a P-PD may be a great disc for you, or possibly a TL. The PD is a little bit (but not much) faster than the TL, but you'll get better distance from it as well. The TL is an awesome disc, and would be very straight for your power level. A regular Teebird may be too much, but worth looking at after you begin developing better distance with one of the less-overstable discs that I mentioned previously.

The Wraith is too much disc for you at the current time regarding the purpose of max distance. Another option for you would be a Champ Leopard. It will help you develop a better snap (after watching the posted videos) and control, and with the proper practice, you should be able to easily drive it out to 300'. It is more stable than the A-SS (and will remain so for a while due to the Champ plastic), and you'll be able to utilize it for a multitude of different types of drives.

 

[garublador]

After reading all these responses, I can't wait to get back out there! Also, my Avenger SS is pretty beat up!

I do throw my mid-range and putter on some holes. My putter goes straight with a slight fade left towards the basket if I throw it right. My mid-range is similar with a bit more fade. I have thrown a Buzz and an Innova Cobra mid-range. My putter is a Birdie (I like the ridge on it for my thumb on shorter putts).

I watched all the youtube videos on putting and practiced a lot. I feel very comfortable with my putting right now.

If you're looking for new drivers, the Polaris LS and DX Cheetah will help you learn to throw farther and with more control than the Avenger-SS or Wraith. They may be shorter at first, but with the right practice you'll be popping them out to 320'+ easily. If you want something that you won't grow out of, but may be a bit on the overstable side for you when new the D Cyclone or DX Gazelle are great, too.

Keep up driving with the mids, too. When I say driving, I mean they should be thrown the same way you throw your drivers. I'd also consider a better putter for driving. The Birdie will get squirrly at short distances for driving.

 

[jdggna]

Glad to be here! I know I need work on my form, but can't figure out how I get such radically different results from two similar discs.

Well, a Wraith is quite a bit more stable than an Avenger SS.

This is true. You probably were comparing the Wraith to the original Avenger, not the Avenger SS. I've seen that messed up SOOO many times it is ridiculous. I wish companies would stop using names like that.

If you're looking for new drivers, the Polaris LS and DX Cheetah will help you learn to throw farther and with more control than the Avenger-SS or Wraith. They may be shorter at first, but with the right practice you'll be popping them out to 320'+ easily. If you want something that you won't grow out of, but may be a bit on the overstable side for you when new the D Cyclone or DX Gazelle are great, too.

Keep up driving with the mids, too. When I say driving, I mean they should be thrown the same way you throw your drivers. I'd also consider a better putter for driving. The Birdie will get squirrly at short distances for driving.

^^^ This.

Fairway drivers are key to learning distance WITH control. Garublador knows his stuff.

Also, in terms of a putter, find a new one and stick with it for putting. Any of the heavily used ones on the forums are a good choice. As a starting point, anything Gateway (Wizard, Voodoo, Warlock, or Magic), a Magnet, a MVP Ion, or an Aviar would be a solid choice. If you are looking for one to drive with than good choices include the Wizard, Vibram VP, Voodoo, and the Ion, though any of the ones mentioned above will work if you practice with them.