[Innova] Old School Aviar Question

[Left2Right]

Back in the 1990's, I purchased an Aviar putter. It had a softer feel to it than all of my other Innova disc of that era. I believe people refer to this putter as a two chain Aviar. I still have it but after 20 years away from the sport I figured I would update my disc if I was going to start playing again. I purchased a new Avair but it doesn't feel anything like my original. My guess is this new Aviar is DX plastic. My original Aviar was definitely softer than this new one. Does anyone know if my old Aviar is still available under one of the many new Aviar variations? If they no longer make this version of the Aviar can someone suggest a putter with the same feel and profile of the original Aviar? I'm thinking my original Aviar was purchased in 1994. It says it was made in San Marino, CA if that helps.

 

[elmexdela]

pics of course would help

depends how many local shops you have i am close to gggt but i would finger thru every disc cuz the dx does vary between some stiffer runs and some softer runs

are you ok with jumping brands

 

[Three Putt]

Back in the 1990's, I purchased an Aviar putter. It had a softer feel to it than all of my other Innova disc of that era. I believe people refer to this putter as a two chain Aviar. I still have it but after 20 years away from the sport I figured I would update my disc if I was going to start playing again. I purchased a new Avair but it doesn't feel anything like my original. My guess is this new Aviar is DX plastic. My original Aviar was definitely softer than this new one. Does anyone know if my old Aviar is still available under one of the many new Aviar variations? If they no longer make this version of the Aviar can someone suggest a putter with the same feel and profile of the original Aviar? I'm thinking my original Aviar was purchased in 1994. It says it was made in San Marino, CA if that helps.

What you have is a putter plastic DX small bead Aviar. Innova doesn't make that exact disc anymore.

Are you looking for something as close as possible to the disc, or as close as possible to the plastic feel?

EDIT: I'm going to say the disc you are looking for is the Millennium DT Omega. Millennium is molded by Innova and still uses the small bead Aviar mold for the Omega series, so it's 100% the same disc as your old putter. I think the Delta-T plastic is as close as you are going to get to the old putter plastic. It's not 100% the same plastic and probably is going to be firmer than you want, but you are in the ballpark. If you want to go the other way and get softer plastic, the Millennium SuperSoft Omega is that option. I don't think either one is going to be exactly what you want, but one or the other are going to be the "close enough" you will eventually settle for.

 

[Left2Right]

Thanks Three Putt. I remember when the Millennium line first came out. I got an LS and JLS which I still throw. I always liked the feel of the Millennium plastic. Looking at the profile of the DT Omega, it does look familiar. I will give the Omega a try. Putting can be as much mental as mechanics. I have more confidence with my old Aviar in my hand. I'm probably looking for the same feel in my hand but perhaps it is the mold that treats me right. I won't retire my discontinued Aviar but it's days as an approach disc may be over in an abundance of caution to protect it.

 

[Left2Right]

Thanks for the advice elmexdela. I'm currently trying out several different brands. I like the feel of the Discraft Jawbreaker. A picture of the original Aviar I seek can be found for sale on Ebay. Listing Title is Rare 1991 2 chain Aviar. Not sure I would feel comfortable playing with a $300 disc.

 

[elmexdela]

What you have is a putter plastic DX small bead Aviar. Innova doesn't make that exact disc anymore.

Are you looking for something as close as possible to the disc, or as close as possible to the plastic feel?

EDIT: I'm going to say the disc you are looking for is the Millennium DT Omega. Millennium is molded by Innova and still uses the small bead Aviar mold for the Omega series, so it's 100% the same disc as your old putter. I think the Delta-T plastic is as close as you are going to get to the old putter plastic. It's not 100% the same plastic and probably is going to be firmer than you want, but you are in the ballpark. If you want to go the other way and get softer plastic, the Millennium SuperSoft Omega is that option. I don't think either one is going to be exactly what you want, but one or the other are going to be the "close enough" you will eventually settle for.

did all 2 chains aviars have sb

why was i thinkin the 2 chains had no bead

i need to freshen up on my aviar history

 

[Three Putt]

Thanks for the advice elmexdela. I'm currently trying out several different brands. I like the feel of the Discraft Jawbreaker. A picture of the original Aviar I seek can be found for sale on Ebay. Listing Title is Rare 1991 2 chain Aviar. Not sure I would feel comfortable playing with a $300 disc.

Lol, they are not $300 discs. I wish they were, I still have like 18 of them.

 

[Three Putt]

did all 2 chains aviars have sb

why was i thinkin the 2 chains had no bead

i need to freshen up on my aviar history

Yeah, even the hands on Aviars had the small bead.

The exception that may be out there someplace is I have two small bead grid Aviars and a big bead tourney stamped Aviar that is putter plastic. That leaves open the possibility that there were big bead Aviars with the two chain PandA stamp. I've never seen or heard of any, but...

 

[elmexdela]

Yeah, even the hands on Aviars had the small bead.

The exception that may be out there someplace is I have two small bead grid Aviars and a big bead tourney stamped Aviar that is putter plastic. That leaves open the possibility that there were big bead Aviars with the two chain PandA stamp. I've never seen or heard of any, but...

when/how did innova introduce the no bead aviar (what we know today as the pna aviar)

 

[Left2Right]

Lol, they are not $300 discs. I wish they were, I still have like 18 of them.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply they were worth $300 that's just how much an unused one is currently priced on Ebay. As we all know, the asking price and true value are two different things. I'm sure I could learn to love the $12 Omega DT I just ordered.

 

[biscoe]

when/how did innova introduce the no bead aviar (what we know today as the pna aviar)

It was the original. Small bead p&a and big bead "driver" came later.

 

[Three Putt]

when/how did innova introduce the no bead aviar (what we know today as the pna aviar)

That's a really good question. I have a note that says 2006, but I don't recall anything that makes me really confident with that date. It was after 2002 and before 2010, so 2006 is at least in the ballpark.

The original Aviar was beadless and came down to a sharp edge, the bead made it more durable and more comfortable in the hand. I have '87 down as the date of that change, but that was before my time so someone must have told me that. I know someone else told me '89, so I really don't know. Again, it's a ballpark figure. The new beadless wing is more rounded off and more comfortable to throw than the original beadless wing. You didn't ask about any of that, but it's in my notes. :|

 

[elmexdela]

It was the original. Small bead p&a and big bead "driver" came later.

cuz i have one of the pro "first run" aviars which has the small bead

but the first run about this one only meant first run when it was in pro afaik

 

[elmexdela]

That's a really good question. I have a note that says 2006, but I don't recall anything that makes me really confident with that date. It was after 2002 and before 2010, so 2006 is at least in the ballpark.

The original Aviar was beadless and came down to a sharp edge, the bead made it more durable and more comfortable in the hand. I have '87 down as the date of that change, but that was before my time so someone must have told me that. I know someone else told me '89, so I really don't know. Again, it's a ballpark figure. The new beadless wing is more rounded off and more comfortable to throw than the original beadless wing. You didn't ask about any of that, but it's in my notes. :|

cuz i thought it first came out beadless then slowly added a sm and then later added a bb and then went off to stay bb or pna and for the most part eliminated the sm models

in a nut shell does that line up with what youre saying and your memory

 

[Three Putt]

cuz i thought it first came out beadless then slowly added a sm and then later added a bb and then went off to stay bb or pna and for the most part eliminated the sm models

in a nut shell does that line up with what youre saying and your memory

Kinda. I was told the big bead came first, small bead was added later. I always wondered if that might account for the '87/'89 dates I would get for when the bead was added but Hell if I know.

The disc that was the big bead Aviar died first. The 90's big bead Aviar was replaced with the Aviar X in the early 00's; all I recall is 9X KC Aviars are the old big bead mold and 10X KC Aviars are the Aviar X mold so '00-'01 for that change. Everything now that says "Aviar" that has the big bead is that Aviar X mold which has a slightly beefier wing and a blunter nose. The Omega Big Beads use the old 90's Aviar big bead mold.

The small bead died five or six years later when they replaced the wing with a beadless wing, but AFAIK the rest of the mold wasn't altered so the nose and what not of the beadless Aviar is still very close to the old small bead Aviar. The Aviar X and big bead Aviar have an entirely different nose.

 

[Three Putt]

Basically what I'm saying is that if you threw Aviars in the 90's but quit disc golf in 1999 and decided to get back into the game today, you have to buy Millennium Omegas to get the discs you remember. Nothing that is sold as an Aviar today is actually the same as the discs we threw in the 90's.

 

[Three Putt]

Which...isn't a huge deal IMO. I throw Yeti's and Classic Aviars sometimes and the difference isn't huge to me. They are still Aviars, more or less.

 

[Jay Dub]

Kinda. I was told the big bead came first, small bead was added later. I always wondered if that might account for the '87/'89 dates I would get for when the bead was added but Hell if I know.

The disc that was the big bead Aviar died first. The 90's big bead Aviar was replaced with the Aviar X in the early 00's; all I recall is 9X KC Aviars are the old big bead mold and 10X KC Aviars are the Aviar X mold so '00-'01 for that change. Everything now that says "Aviar" that has the big bead is that Aviar X mold which has a slightly beefier wing and a blunter nose. The Omega Big Beads use the old 90's Aviar big bead mold.

The small bead died five or six years later when they replaced the wing with a beadless wing, but AFAIK the rest of the mold wasn't altered so the nose and what not of the beadless Aviar is still very close to the old small bead Aviar. The Aviar X and big bead Aviar have an entirely different nose.

My memory is the big bead was first on any Innova discs that added beads. Roc came out with a bead on it then the XD added one which was a small bead Roc in my mind at the time.

 

[Three Putt]

My memory is the big bead was first on any Innova discs that added beads. Roc came out with a bead on it then the XD added one which was a small bead Roc in my mind at the time.

I think (and this is just me blathering at this point) that the XD wing piece and Aviar PandA wing piece is the same mold piece because they both switched from small bead to beadless at the same time in the mid 00's. From what I can tell the XD added a small bead at the same time that the Aviar added the small bead in the late 80's. The XD essentially was a low profile Avair so it makes sense that the wing is the same.

 

[Jay Dub]

I think (and this is just me blathering at this point) that the XD wing piece and Aviar PandA wing piece is the same mold piece because they both switched from small bead to beadless at the same time in the mid 00's and from what I can tell the XD added a small bead at the same time and the Aviar added the small bead in the late 80's. The XD essentially was a low profile Avair so it makes sense that the wing is the same.

These XDs have small beads, they date themselves.