JR
* Ace Member *
Another long one again sorry. But it ought to be helpful to other inexperienced overhead throwers as well.
I'm not that well practiced in tommies and thumbers although I've thrown occasional tommies now and then for a couple of years. I trained mainly thumbers today because I haven't been able to throw as far with them as with tommies and there are two holes on my home course that an be effectively driven with thumbers that land on the top of the disc or less preferably upright after 180 degree clockwise rotation. I'd like some feedback on my technique that I'll describe later. I'd like to begin with an explanation of what I need from flight paths and how my discs flew on a practice field today. Any observations and advice are very welcome because I've just tried to tommy those holes with varying success. Now that I can throw thumbers better I can start training on those holes the next time I play.
The first hole needs to be thrown over a row of trees at about 30 degree upward angle minimum and the second one can be thrown from -10 degrees upwards depending on available power. The first hole is IIRC 200' and about 10' down and the second is 300' and a lot down. Maybe around 60-70'. The first one is basically like a tunnel close to the pin and the second one is behind an almost vertical drop under a downhill slope that can be used for sliding a short top of the disc to the ground slide to the basket. It's a fast green that continues downhill after the pin. There's a downhill slope behind the first hole too but here the green is level unlike with the second hole.
The flight lines that are optimal for these holes are maybe a bit different. On the first hole the disc should fly upright for best predictability and tree penetration without lateral motion for the first 90 5 of the length. After about 170' of 200' on the first hole the disc should turn on the top of the disc being pointed downwards and landing like that skipping or sliding the rest of the way stopping before the slope 15' beyond the pin. If the disc flips the disc can't move more than 4' to the left of the initial line or it'll hit a row of trees guarding the green. Tommy leads to a thicker bunch of trees and a downhill slope on the right side of the green. The second hole has more available lines and placements with less obstacles. As long as one gets beyond the verticalish drop to the green area under 10' right of the basket and not too far downhill.
Today on the practice field I got the poorest results with the Epic. I tried several grip variations. Thumb tip squeezing towards the seam of the thumb and index finger. And thumb straigth on the widest part of the rim. Other fingers all on the top of the disc or middle and index fingers over the top side of the wing. Or the disc removed from the seam of the index finger and thumb for more mobility and wider arc. And combinations of these finger positions. With every grip the Epic seemed to wobble in the air and always fell the shortest of the discs I threw. It flipped about 225 degrees dropping at 10-15 degrees after the flip.
The best distance was 200' on level ground. I threw other throws for over an hour before throwing twice with these discs with thumbers in the end. I really had to concentrate on gripping and form to get to within 20' of my best throws. This demonstrated to me the differences in form vs distance. I got best distances with the disc out of the seam of the thumb and index finger to having the outermost joint of the thumb on the corner of the rim and wing of the disc. Index and middle fingers on top of each other touching each other. Middle finger lower on the top side of the rim. Rim under the center of the middle finger.
I threw with elbow leading chopping the elbow straigth as late as possible snapping forward with the wrist as fast as possible as late as possible from as far back as the wrist could be turned. Left leg up in the beginning like a baseball pitcher with the same motion with legs, hips and shoulders coiled back initially firing in order from down to up before the arm swing. Focusing on maximum acceleration as late as possible with each part coming to full speed right after the hit. Following through with the arm to behind the rump to the right. With and without running with sharp push with the right leg shifting weigth forward.
Leaving the shoulder turning with a quick turn at the end of the motion from the throw cut 12-17' out of the flight with each disc. Sluggish wrist snapping cut another 3-10'. Throwing with 40-60 degree angle up usually cut 5-35'. But somtimes the Leopard, Teerex x, Predator and RI would turn upside down and slowly if at all turned more with much of the flight upside down so that the dustance really didn't suffer much at all. With the Leopard being the least susceptible to distance loss because it got far in every angle and amount of flip.
I also threw 169 CFR Teerex X, 169 SRP Raging Inferno, 166 Star Wraith, 173 Champion Leopard, 173 Z XS and 173 Z Predator. I really was surprised about the Leopard. It was the longest disc out of these for me. And the flight lines changed the least between 20 degrees to 55-60 degrees upwards that I threw. The Teerex came next very close. The Predator and RI were shorter and a bit more turning. The rest turned way too much for gap penetration with too much lateral motion and variation in turning between the upward angle of the throws.
The Leopard and the Teerex X are great at minimizing lateral motion. The Leopard could stay unturned for most of the flight or flip over with only about 10' max lateral motion and usually under 7'. Man this is reliable for gap piercing. The Teerex X moves more laterally and turns more but is ok for most situations. With thumbers it just tends to end up right of the initial line which ain't good for the first hole on my home course and disadvantageous for the second hole.
The Leopard and the Teerex X are useful other shots so they just got a new role dropping the XS from my bag
Unfortunately the Wraith wobbled often and seemed to be the most difficult to keep upright before the hit.
I've got some trouble with reliability of the grip. When I put the disc to the seam of the thumb and index finger I lose vital distance because my distance is marginal. When I have the disc more towards the tips of the fingers the discs sometimes don't stay in upright angle until the hit. Rain made this worse. For predictability I had to drop the disc to the seam.
Am I doing something wrong and what would you suggest for getting more distance? How far do average players throw. How do I get a reliable constant upright angle keeping grip that doesn't cost me distance? Are there things to do with form that change the flipping of the disc to 90 % of the distance? How does one get the disc to fly upright without any flipping all the way through the throw? If I could manage that I'd be close enough to the baskets if the disc stopped. Which means that with the slightest of modifications I should be able to get the disc to land top down. What does tilting the disc clockwise or counterclockwise do?
Are there other things besides the arm speed and amount of snapping that contribute to the rotation of the disc? I can't snap harder now before months of weigth training. Is the arm/shoulder/hip/leg turning to be done as hard as possible like I'm doing now? Every other tip that I didn't know to ask is greatly appreciated too.
I'm not that well practiced in tommies and thumbers although I've thrown occasional tommies now and then for a couple of years. I trained mainly thumbers today because I haven't been able to throw as far with them as with tommies and there are two holes on my home course that an be effectively driven with thumbers that land on the top of the disc or less preferably upright after 180 degree clockwise rotation. I'd like some feedback on my technique that I'll describe later. I'd like to begin with an explanation of what I need from flight paths and how my discs flew on a practice field today. Any observations and advice are very welcome because I've just tried to tommy those holes with varying success. Now that I can throw thumbers better I can start training on those holes the next time I play.
The first hole needs to be thrown over a row of trees at about 30 degree upward angle minimum and the second one can be thrown from -10 degrees upwards depending on available power. The first hole is IIRC 200' and about 10' down and the second is 300' and a lot down. Maybe around 60-70'. The first one is basically like a tunnel close to the pin and the second one is behind an almost vertical drop under a downhill slope that can be used for sliding a short top of the disc to the ground slide to the basket. It's a fast green that continues downhill after the pin. There's a downhill slope behind the first hole too but here the green is level unlike with the second hole.
The flight lines that are optimal for these holes are maybe a bit different. On the first hole the disc should fly upright for best predictability and tree penetration without lateral motion for the first 90 5 of the length. After about 170' of 200' on the first hole the disc should turn on the top of the disc being pointed downwards and landing like that skipping or sliding the rest of the way stopping before the slope 15' beyond the pin. If the disc flips the disc can't move more than 4' to the left of the initial line or it'll hit a row of trees guarding the green. Tommy leads to a thicker bunch of trees and a downhill slope on the right side of the green. The second hole has more available lines and placements with less obstacles. As long as one gets beyond the verticalish drop to the green area under 10' right of the basket and not too far downhill.
Today on the practice field I got the poorest results with the Epic. I tried several grip variations. Thumb tip squeezing towards the seam of the thumb and index finger. And thumb straigth on the widest part of the rim. Other fingers all on the top of the disc or middle and index fingers over the top side of the wing. Or the disc removed from the seam of the index finger and thumb for more mobility and wider arc. And combinations of these finger positions. With every grip the Epic seemed to wobble in the air and always fell the shortest of the discs I threw. It flipped about 225 degrees dropping at 10-15 degrees after the flip.
The best distance was 200' on level ground. I threw other throws for over an hour before throwing twice with these discs with thumbers in the end. I really had to concentrate on gripping and form to get to within 20' of my best throws. This demonstrated to me the differences in form vs distance. I got best distances with the disc out of the seam of the thumb and index finger to having the outermost joint of the thumb on the corner of the rim and wing of the disc. Index and middle fingers on top of each other touching each other. Middle finger lower on the top side of the rim. Rim under the center of the middle finger.
I threw with elbow leading chopping the elbow straigth as late as possible snapping forward with the wrist as fast as possible as late as possible from as far back as the wrist could be turned. Left leg up in the beginning like a baseball pitcher with the same motion with legs, hips and shoulders coiled back initially firing in order from down to up before the arm swing. Focusing on maximum acceleration as late as possible with each part coming to full speed right after the hit. Following through with the arm to behind the rump to the right. With and without running with sharp push with the right leg shifting weigth forward.
Leaving the shoulder turning with a quick turn at the end of the motion from the throw cut 12-17' out of the flight with each disc. Sluggish wrist snapping cut another 3-10'. Throwing with 40-60 degree angle up usually cut 5-35'. But somtimes the Leopard, Teerex x, Predator and RI would turn upside down and slowly if at all turned more with much of the flight upside down so that the dustance really didn't suffer much at all. With the Leopard being the least susceptible to distance loss because it got far in every angle and amount of flip.
I also threw 169 CFR Teerex X, 169 SRP Raging Inferno, 166 Star Wraith, 173 Champion Leopard, 173 Z XS and 173 Z Predator. I really was surprised about the Leopard. It was the longest disc out of these for me. And the flight lines changed the least between 20 degrees to 55-60 degrees upwards that I threw. The Teerex came next very close. The Predator and RI were shorter and a bit more turning. The rest turned way too much for gap penetration with too much lateral motion and variation in turning between the upward angle of the throws.
The Leopard and the Teerex X are great at minimizing lateral motion. The Leopard could stay unturned for most of the flight or flip over with only about 10' max lateral motion and usually under 7'. Man this is reliable for gap piercing. The Teerex X moves more laterally and turns more but is ok for most situations. With thumbers it just tends to end up right of the initial line which ain't good for the first hole on my home course and disadvantageous for the second hole.
The Leopard and the Teerex X are useful other shots so they just got a new role dropping the XS from my bag
Unfortunately the Wraith wobbled often and seemed to be the most difficult to keep upright before the hit.I've got some trouble with reliability of the grip. When I put the disc to the seam of the thumb and index finger I lose vital distance because my distance is marginal. When I have the disc more towards the tips of the fingers the discs sometimes don't stay in upright angle until the hit. Rain made this worse. For predictability I had to drop the disc to the seam.
Am I doing something wrong and what would you suggest for getting more distance? How far do average players throw. How do I get a reliable constant upright angle keeping grip that doesn't cost me distance? Are there things to do with form that change the flipping of the disc to 90 % of the distance? How does one get the disc to fly upright without any flipping all the way through the throw? If I could manage that I'd be close enough to the baskets if the disc stopped. Which means that with the slightest of modifications I should be able to get the disc to land top down. What does tilting the disc clockwise or counterclockwise do?
Are there other things besides the arm speed and amount of snapping that contribute to the rotation of the disc? I can't snap harder now before months of weigth training. Is the arm/shoulder/hip/leg turning to be done as hard as possible like I'm doing now? Every other tip that I didn't know to ask is greatly appreciated too.
