- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,401
< starts new career as a social media influencer
Should have started that career earlier this year.
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
< starts new career as a social media influencer
IMHO:
If the creek is OB, any island in the creek should be considered OB, unless the island is an intended landing spot.
The determination of whether a lie is is OB or safe shouldn't depend on the water level (e.g. area's seen a lot of rain that week, or is experiencing a drought)..
If the creek crosses the fairway: TD should declare the entire creek/creek bed OB.
If the creek runs roughly parallel to the fairway, the near edge of the creek should be declared OB.
Better still to mark with a chalk/flour line or rope.
....... Just treat it all as casual, .....................
You should stop reading them since it gives you such pain.
I think I landed on an island and have relief. This is my throw. Are my feet good?
What you encounter on these forums discussing tournament play and rules is nothing like what you'll encounter in a tournament. Honestly most groups with indecision over a rule will just move forward without rocking the boat, making the most common sense decision in the moment to go forward without advantaging or disadvantaging anyone. Using the rules discussion in the Des Moines thread as an example: maybe a provisional will be called here or there where it shouldn't have been, but unless its on coverage like Gannon's situation the odds are that literally no one will ever dissect that decision or even come to realize that something was played wrong or that they even had to worry about playing it wrong.Ask the TD.
I've never played a tournament. Reading these forums solidifies that Every. Single. Day.
Sound's awful to me.
The rule I've always encouraged at our local leagues, where we tend to make the call day-of, is to check if the water is running. If the creek in the water is running, we play it out of bounds. If its not, we play it casual.As a sidebar, water in creeks isn't the most precise boundary, and it would always be better to flag or rope them for tournaments, for better definition. However, that's not always practical.
What you encounter on these forums discussing tournament play and rules is nothing like what you'll encounter in a tournament. Honestly most groups with indecision over a rule will just move forward without rocking the boat, making the most common sense decision in the moment to go forward without advantaging or disadvantaging anyone. Using the rules discussion in the Des Moines thread as an example: maybe a provisional will be called here or there where it shouldn't have been, but unless its on coverage like Gannon's situation the odds are that literally no one will ever dissect that decision or even come to realize that something was played wrong or that they even had to worry about playing it wrong.
You'll encounter some rounds here and there with someone that is absolutely nose-in-the-rulebook trying to find an edge, looking for something to call on someone (rightfully or not). But they're just so rare that its not worth stressing over.
I definitely feel like this thread's topic could come up in any given league or tournament I play where there's a creek in my area, 3 separate courses. But in 18 years I've never encountered an actual dispute over this particular thing, including many years where I played probably over 200 league+tournament rounds locally.
Circumstances vary wildly. We have a private course with about a half-mile of creek shore (and as many holes that bring the creek into play as we could muster), and another quarter-mile of gravel road (the border of which is, if anything, even vaguer than water's edge).
We don't want the unsightliness of permanent OB markers, nor is it feasible to mark all of that for C-tier tournaments. As a compromise, a few particularly troublesome spots are marked; for tournaments we mark a few more (including the gravel road), and leave the rest to good will.
The standards would be different for top-tier courses and events.
In the meantime, we try to be as specific as possible in the wording of our ground rules, so people can quickly make a ruling and get on with playing.
Yeah, I agree that it is a question worth asking. I didn't mean for the end of that post to come across as saying this isn't a discussion worth having. It absolutely is, and I enjoyed reading it. I was more intending to just note for this person that debates over this stuff just aren't regular on the course in competition settings.You are correct IMO that most people don't want to create an issue or scene. However, since the rules are vague (as you have argued), I thought I might ask for clarity of people's opinion or interpretation since that is how the rules are commonly followed.
I posted this because I have encountered specific interpretations that (once again IMO) don't match the statement "surrounded by water". I thought--hey, a place where people talk about rules and interpretations in a benign manner would be ideal for me to address my conflict between experience and written word.
But, that seems to extend beyond some people. For some, their ego exceeds dispassionate debate. That's okay. I can see that for what it is worth. It's personal for some. I can get caught up in the personal aspects as well. Regardless, I try really hard not to carry my personal issues from one thread to another.
But, there are aspects that are arbitrary and require a choice. Like the 2 meter rule. Why is a disc at 1.9 m IB and disc at 2.1 m OB? Because the rule is 2 m.
I've always thought that using water lines to define OB is not the optimal option; however, I can acquiesce to certain places or situations where the practicality outweighs that philosophy.
However, I wish TD's wouldn't shorten it to "surrounded by water", and instead say something like, "where the water line meets the land in the creek/bed/pond/whatever defines the OB line."
Maybe --- "surrounded by water in the creek" ???It may be hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, but...
Every continent is surrounded by water.
∴ Every lie is surrounded by water.
Feel free to discuss/debate.