disc-golf-neil
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2023
- Messages
- 773
Started a playlist on YouTube for tech disc tests, the first one is comparing nose angle techniques. Turn the key, vs pour the tea, vs inverted swoop:
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I'm skeptical that last-moment usage of that cue could be consistent, or help overall, when it comes to drives. I spent an hour doing dedicated testing and at least for me trying to institute that cue at the tail end of my swing ended up in out-of-control releases of the disc, and the flights were embarrassing. That said, you might have better success than I with experimentation. After watching Sheep's video I'm more convinced than effort other form elements have to be in place for nose angle cues to work. (the grip is good, the swing is on-plane, and the follow-through is consistent with the swing (especially wrist angle)Perhaps if I tried to dynamically pour the tea at the last moment instead of maintaining the wrist position, it would work better. However, if that worked better, I think it would be less because of the wrist movement and more because trying to do it dynamically and aggressively would increase the chance that you do something extra with the arm that helps bring the nose down
I agree about needing a good fundamental base first, but turn the key is timed in the same way I was describing testing out a timed pour the tea and without a lot of time using the turn the key cue I was able to get those nose angles on command with decent consistency, some here and there that are off, but that's true of other things too like hyzer control, spin, etc. You mind as well doubt all of high level sports if you're going to doubt that timing is possible to get consistent at.I'm skeptical that last-moment usage of that cue could be consistent, or help overall, when it comes to drives. I spent an hour doing dedicated testing and at least for me trying to institute that cue at the tail end of my swing ended up in out-of-control releases of the disc, and the flights were embarrassing. That said, you might have better success than I with experimentation. After watching Sheep's video I'm more convinced than effort other form elements have to be in place for nose angle cues to work. (the grip is good, the swing is on-plane, and the follow-through is consistent with the swing (especially wrist angle)
I did start out with 'set and forget' as my main strategy to offload as much cognitive overhead as possible to work on the other many form elements.The good news for you is that you're younger and have better form than I, and have less to "rewrite" for lack of a better term. You may be a lot more successful than me at dynamically making any adjustments or corrections in the swing. I still believe (maybe incorrectly, dunno) that minimizing actions during the swing, and setting things up properly before you even attempt to throw, may be the better course of action. But I think that's where experimentation comes in, and the results will speak for themselves over time.![]()
I tried to bring this topic up yesterday too because it does seem like 'more nose down' is becoming a goal.because if I want to keep pushing my distance I need more nose down
Yeah it's mostly for when I have a big open fairway and want to bomb. Even tho it doesn't happen that often, some courses have more of them and I want to be able to go for it.I tried to bring this topic up yesterday too because it does seem like 'more nose down' is becoming a goal.
I just don't think there is evidence for this, and anecdotally, I would say that simply getting a lower negative angle is not going to have much effect at all if you are throwing at least neutral or negative to begin with.
What is the reasoning to think you should pursue lower angles for more distance?
And what lines are we talking about. Maybe if you are talking about those kinda silly 'distance lines' then nose angle gets weird. I really only care about actual golf shots. I will practically never be throwing a flippy boy with 150' of right/left movement 50' in the air lol.
I don't really doubt the value of a negative angle itself. Pros seems to consistently be tossing with a slightly negative angle naturally when they throw a techdisc. I do have my doubts that going more negative has any actual benefit though.Yeah it's mostly for when I have a big open fairway and want to bomb. Even tho it doesn't happen that often, some courses have more of them and I want to be able to go for it.
Part of the idea is, if -4 is truly good, but -4 only happens when the stars align for you, then you will rarely be able to pull it off. However, if I can fairly consistently get beyond -4 then it makes -4 much easier to achieve and I can shoot for -6 and miss and still be -2 to -4.
Just need to confirm that negative is actually useful. I asked @Nick481 in his thread since he has aerospace background, maybe he knows about academic flight papers that can back it up.
That's my instinct too and why it tracks when I heard someone talk about some aerodynamics of disc flight academic paper (can't remember where or who) and they mentioned the "disc doesn't fly with the nose down" it levels out. I'm assuming that extra nose down just reduces the risk that say a gust of wind comes at an undesirable angle and pushes it from nose neutral to more nose up early on in the flight so extra nose down maximizes the chance that you get to the apex with a neutral enough nose to get long glide. Also extra nose down lets you use extra launch angle without it stalling which I can imagine can be helpful sometimes. Often you see in distance competitions people not give it enough height because the margin of error of going too high is so small for them. But if you have the ability to get extra nose down you have less margin of error for too positive of a launch angle, but you have more margin of error for too low.I don't really doubt the value of a negative angle itself. Pros seems to consistently be tossing with a slightly negative angle naturally when they throw a techdisc. I do have my doubts that going more negative has any actual benefit though.
My hunch is that discs anywhere from 0 to -5 degrees or something all just end up flying neutral. With nose up, there is a rim for air to perpetually be pressing against, not letting the disc have any chance to ever flatten out. With nose down, I can imagine the air just kind of presses the disc's tail into a neutral flight. This is an intensely unscientific theory lol, but it would make sense if that is what ends up being the case.
I can see that, and I can also see value in making extra sure you don't throw nose up. Very curious what my nose angle numbers end up being. I could be totally wrong about the feeling that I mostly throw neutral. All I really know is that I have never tried to change much once I started to see the disc with the lowest profile possible in the air.That's my instinct too and why it tracks when I heard someone talk about some aerodynamics of disc flight academic paper (can't remember where or who) and they mentioned the "disc doesn't fly with the nose down" it levels out. I'm assuming that extra nose down just reduces the risk that say a gust of wind comes at an undesirable angle and pushes it from nose neutral to more nose up early on in the flight so it maximizes the chance that you get to the apex with a neutral enough nose to get long glide.
I think this is likely true for nose down throws but the disc definitely doesn't re-align to neutral if it is nose-up.One thing to keep in mind: that initial nose angle (relative to launch angle) is temporary. As the disc spins and moves, I am pretty sure the nose angle of the disc quickly assumes the trajectory of the disc, due to the gyroscopic effect. I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but I think it's the same as how wobble diminishes over time.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think it does that on nose up throws, too. The trajectory of the disc gets affected by it either way. That said, this is way outside of my area of expertise. I guess it's fair to say it's just an area of interest!I think this is likely true for nose down throws but the disc definitely doesn't re-align to neutral if it is nose-up.
I imagine that is what you are saying though![]()
Also wanted to say and maybe Nick K can weigh in:That's my instinct too and why it tracks when I heard someone talk about some aerodynamics of disc flight academic paper (can't remember where or who) and they mentioned the "disc doesn't fly with the nose down" it levels out. I'm assuming that extra nose down just reduces the risk that say a gust of wind comes at an undesirable angle and pushes it from nose neutral to more nose up early on in the flight so extra nose down maximizes the chance that you get to the apex with a neutral enough nose to get long glide. Also extra nose down lets you use extra launch angle without it stalling which I can imagine can be helpful sometimes. Often you see in distance competitions people not give it enough height because the margin of error of going too high is so small for them. But if you have the ability to get extra nose down you have less margin of error for too positive of a launch angle, but you have more margin of error for too low.