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[Other] Theory on light weight disc flight

hugheshilton

* Ace Member *
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
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2,768
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Beaverton, OR
So I've had a theory kicking around my head and just wanted to put it out there (so everyone can tell me I'm wrong). We all know that lighter discs tend to fly less stable generally. I'm not talking about bubble plastic right now, just weight variation within the same plastic type. So I have often experienced the fact that buying a driver that's 6-8 grams lighter seems to make a difference in how overstable it is that seems out of proportion to the actual weight difference. I mean, it's true that a lighter weight does mean that it takes less power to get a disc up to speed, but a few grams shouldn't mean that I'm throwing the disc THAT much faster. In fact, it doesn't mean I'm throwing faster at all; it just takes less energy to throw it which means it's going to tire me out a little less.

So my theory is when discs are molded up in lighter weights, the weight doesn't come out evenly from all parts of the disc. I think weight generally gets removed from the wing of the disc rather than from the flight plate. Less weight around the edge means a decrease in angular momentum (the gyroscopic force that stabilizes a disc). Less angular momentum means less resistance to high speed turn, which makes a disc less stable.

So coming to bubble plastic, if you remember the "good" Blizzard Bosses that were the ones that were initially released that had bubbles in the flight plate as well as the wing. I have one of these that I threw for quite a while, and it definitely started out pretty stable to overstable. In subsequent releases, they started doing bubbles only in the rims, and most of those discs are super flippy compared to those initial ones. I believe this is because having bubbles in the flight plate lightens up the disc proportionately (or even lightens the flight plate MORE than the wing), whereas if you just put bubbles in the wing, you are decreasing the angular momentum substantially and thus making the disc much more understable.

Now I have a 158 gram McBeth Star Destroyer that is super overstable. This seems counter to my theory until I compare it to my other regular weight Star Destroyers. What I find is that I think the mold or the cooling process has been tweaked for the light weight Destroyers. The wing is higher than any of my regular weight overstable Destroyers and it also is distinctly more concave on the underside. I recall there was a run of light weight Japan Open Star Destroyers a few years ago that Innova admitted had been "stabilized" and I think this is what they did. To counteract the decrease in angular momentum, they raised the PLH and made the wing a bit more convex. These tweaks decrease the aerodynamic lift, which is where high speed turns come from.

Alright, that's my theory. Now everyone can pile on and tell me how wrong I am. :)
 
There are also large inconsistencies from disc to disc to take into consideration. I have a pair of G* Destroyers, 168 and 172. The 168 flies like a nice beefy Destroyer. Everyone that throws the 172 says it flies like a Roadrunner. I've seen 2 other 172g Destoyers in the same color and stamp as mine (light blue with green), 1 of those people said his is flippy junk too.

As for the lightweights, I have had 4 or 5 blizzad Bosses around 150g. Then one afternoon I saw Hannah ripping a 134g *lite Sidewinder. I had bad luck with *lite, everything but the Teebird was flippy for me, but I went out and bought myself a 136g blizzard Boss and damn if it doesn't still fly like a boss (but LOTS farther). However, I've tried a blizz Destro and Wraith recently and both were so flippy I couldn't keep them flying.

 
I recall there was a run of light weight Japan Open Star Destroyers a few years ago that Innova admitted had been "stabilized" and I think this is what they did. To counteract the decrease in angular momentum, they raised the PLH and made the wing a bit more convex.


I have a.. ummm more-stable-than-stable 150 class teebird. The PLH is indeed higher than the other teebirds I have, including a star that weighs ~161ish. It could be interesting to mic the flight plates of identical (new) molds in 150 class and max weight.
 
There are also large inconsistencies from disc to disc to take into consideration. I have a pair of G* Destroyers, 168 and 172. The 168 flies like a nice beefy Destroyer. Everyone that throws the 172 says it flies like a Roadrunner. I've seen 2 other 172g Destoyers in the same color and stamp as mine (light blue with green), 1 of those people said his is flippy junk too.

As for the lightweights, I have had 4 or 5 blizzad Bosses around 150g. Then one afternoon I saw Hannah ripping a 134g *lite Sidewinder. I had bad luck with *lite, everything but the Teebird was flippy for me, but I went out and bought myself a 136g blizzard Boss and damn if it doesn't still fly like a boss (but LOTS farther). However, I've tried a blizz Destro and Wraith recently and both were so flippy I couldn't keep them flying.

Oh yes I am aware of all the inconsistencies from run to run and plastic to plastic. Destroyers are particularly bad when it comes to inconsistency. However, I think if you can find 2 discs from the same run, the lighter one will generally be less stable, assuming the PLH is similar. I know lots of people who buy drivers in the mid to upper 160's because they are USUALLY less stable than max weight drivers. It's obviously not always true, but it's true enough that lots of people use it as a rule of thumb for purchasing.
 
I have a.. ummm more-stable-than-stable 150 class teebird. The PLH is indeed higher than the other teebirds I have, including a star that weighs ~161ish. It could be interesting to mic the flight plates of identical (new) molds in 150 class and max weight.

And I have a 150 class Star Teebird that flies exactly like my 167g Star TL. It's PLH is similar to other Teebirds I have, but it flies significantly more understable.
 
Makes me wonder how much of it is about how the discs cool when they come out of the mold, as far as shrinkage and flexing.
 
Makes me wonder how much of it is about how the discs cool when they come out of the mold, as far as shrinkage and flexing.

A lot. If memory serves me correctly, Mr. Dunipace said something about that being a factor, especially in the PLH being where it is on each disc.
 
My fission photon is 144g and much less stable compared to my 166g proton photon.

Those super light fission have some dome and lower PLH in my experience. Min vs max wt proton/neutron fly very similar. PLH/shape (dome vs flat)will matter the most regardless of plastic or weight. Can only compare weight really of identical molds to determine difference in flight.
 
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Makes sense. I also have a really domey sidewinder that flies a lot like a Destroyer.
 
Can only compare weight really of identical molds to determine difference in flight.

Yep, agreed. Even in an identical mold, it can be hard if you're not comparing the same run of discs since the conditions in the factory (or who is doing the run and how they are handling the cooling process) can cause differences in PLH. I don't have a ton of experience with MVP's lighter weight discs. Possibly with an overmold, they can more easily remove weight from both the flight plate and overmold when they're running lighter weight discs, so they don't get as much variance in stability. Mainly my original post was referring to traditionally molded discs.
 
I have a couple experiences. I've had a few "air" discs from DD which is like blizzard. And they had very thin flight plates, noticeably so. Also, I've had some discs that were lighter that ended up with higher plh vs. same mold, must have been due to the cooling process.

I doubt they are tweaking molds to give higher plh to lighter weight discs of the "same" mold. I think it may have more to do with the cooling process or plastic blend or a combination of the two.
 
Alls I know is I never know exactly how a disc will fly until I throw it. Ah, unique little snowflakes...
 

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