USDGC coverage

[Discslinger12]

Well, what's best is obviously a matter of opinion. Back then, 15 years ago, I would have argued that it was pretty much anything BUT big tournaments and national sponsors. For me it was things like grassroots growth, education, leagues, club support, schools, designing and building courses suitable (and interesting and appropriately challenging) to wide audiences, etc.

Yes, all those were on the Player Survey. And yes, I'm saying the Leaders should NOT have listened to the membership. It's like the 4th grade teachers listening to my daughter and her classmates about what they want to do in school today. (half-assed analogy)

But with frisbee golfers, it's more a of a big-dreamer mentality in a totally unrealistic way. We've all been there. We were all bitten by the DG bug. We all want to put in Championship Courses!!!! We all want National Sponsorship!!! We all want to be on TV!!!!! That's what we all want, but we're not there yet. It's the cart before the horse.

But those are just my opinions....at least they were at the time....I don't much think about it anymore.

And as Pat points out in the post after yours, listening to (and serving and acting on the wishes of) the membership is the charter of many if not most similar organizations.

p.s. I *love* it when Govang or any of the voices from the past drop in and give their perspective. There were so many smart people back in my heyday (Govang, Houck, Hoeniger, Brakel, Pozzy, just for starters), and having their perspective now 10-20 years later is really interesting.

happy to oblige! it's great to see both you and Lyle still in the mix!

 

[lyleoross]

Well, what's best is obviously a matter of opinion. Back then, 15 years ago, I would have argued that it was pretty much anything BUT big tournaments and national sponsors. For me it was things like grassroots growth, education, leagues, club support, schools, designing and building courses suitable (and interesting and appropriately challenging) to wide audiences, etc.

Yes, all those were on the Player Survey. And yes, I'm saying the Leaders should NOT have listened to the membership. It's like the 4th grade teachers listening to my daughter and her classmates about what they want to do in school today. (half-assed analogy)

But with frisbee golfers, it's more a of a big-dreamer mentality in a totally unrealistic way. We've all been there. We were all bitten by the DG bug. We all want to put in Championship Courses!!!! We all want National Sponsorship!!! We all want to be on TV!!!!! That's what we all want, but we're not there yet. It's the cart before the horse.

But those are just my opinions....at least they were at the time....I don't much think about it anymore.

And as Pat points out in the post after yours, listening to (and serving and acting on the wishes of) the membership is the charter of many if not most similar organizations.

p.s. I *love* it when Govang or any of the voices from the past drop in and give their perspective. There were so many smart people back in my heyday (Govang, Houck, Hoeniger, Brakel, Pozzy, just for starters), and having their perspective now 10-20 years later is really interesting.

So if I were to cut to the chase, less emphasis on big things, more emphasis on grass roots growth?

One thing that I've noticed here in Texas over the past five years is that the grass roots, here, has developed a life of it's own. There are many players who play and act locally that are doing huge things, and don't give a wiff about the PDGA. That is only pertinent because while I think the PDGA supporting grass roots was more important in the past, it may be that today we are past that?

I admit, that in your initial post, my understanding of the big dreamer comment was off. I think you're right, there are too many mid level players who think that PDGA should be somehow allowing them to make a living at this, and their failure in this is becuase they are somehow lousy at their jobs. If only they had brought in that $200 million sponsorship I could quit my day job at Burger Jack and do what I really love.

 

[lyleoross]

happy to oblige! it's great to see both you and Lyle still in the mix!

Good to see that the efforts of past leaders have paid off so well. I know there is plenty of beefing that goes on, but where the sport is today is very exciting.

 

[Streets]

Man, I just love watching a live scoring bracket, so exciting seeing the numbers updating.

 

[lyleoross]

I tried to think about a dozen different ways to creatively say what I'm going to say but I couldn't come up with the right words. So, I'm just going to list a few points that haven't been mentioned yet in 400-some posts.

1. Everybody seems to have overlooked the filming itself. The people who cover the sport--although they get every single drive, up shot, and putt--have not yet figured out how to make the sport watchable on a screen. Yes, to the hardcore person like myself, I'd probably watch it on a Zoetrope. But I'm in the minority, especially if the sport is trying to market itself to new people. Disc golf is a beautiful sport--watching a disc flying through the air is much more pleasurable than watching a ball. However, the people who cover the sport have not yet captured that magic. My personal opinion is they have to start thinking about getting off the ground and renting a scissor lift once in a while. No sport is filmed from ground level--football, basketball, baseball, NASCAR, ball golf, soccer, ping pong, track and field, etc.

2. Many disc golf holes are not film-able. I realize how everybody went nuts about Dave Feldberg's skip ace a few years ago but really, there should never be a camera on that hole. If the point is to market the sport to new people, AND provide coverage for the hardcore followers, all on a very small budget, then concessions need to be made. Filming should only be done on holes where the sport can look impressive for new people--over water, down hills, on to island greens, AND can provide pleasure to the hardcore watcher. Anything else, or too much in either direction, is a waste. Once again, if funds are limited.

3. Regarding point #2, there is already a template out there and it's still puzzling to me why nobody follows it. The PGA has PGA Tour Live. $5/month. You get to watch selected coverage on certain holes before a tv broadcast begins. The production company sets up cameras on 2 or 3 holes, usually ones where some action might happen. They have a set of announcers watching different screens in a booth and they call the action as each group passes through. The viewer gets to see ALL the golfers, not just a selected pair. The viewer has the possibility of seeing a hole in one or an eagle because the right holes have been selected. It's cost effective because you don't then need 18 cameramen with 18 different announcers for the time when there are no commercials.
I mean, if the issue is truly funds and eyeballs, then cameras should only be set up where interesting things may happen that could help market the sport. Because, once again, going back to point #2, do we really need to see shots on a dinker 250ft. hole with trees on both sides where most players will take pars anyway? When, in replacement of that, we could see EVERY shot with EVERY player at an island green, down a hill, over water, etc.
It kind of feels like everyone has gotten SO caught up in covering every hole, that it's become dogma. Because the announcing, the interviews, the graphics, the stats, etc. get better every year. But the filming is still stuck in the 1990's.

I'll briefly address a couple of your points. The pay per view was tried several years ago, and failed. I think the leaders in this area are a bit afraid to dip in again. My feeling is that with the growth in the Finnish market, that there might be success out of the European base.

I'm curious to see how long it's gonna be before a Chuck, or a John or one of the other designers lays out a course that is good for play, has spectator walk ways, and filming positions, stands if you will, from the outset. That requires resources and space of course, but think about doing it for one major as a start.

I've written this before, but WRC +, a pay to view of World Rally Championship, is wildly successful, especially in Europe (and Finland, were Rally is one of the top sports). They package all kinds of unique things for their members and it is a great purchase. Think about Jomez, CCDG, and smashboxx coming together. You get some live for free, and a some summaries. But all the immediate turn around stuff goes to pay per view first, then to free a week later. That is the model. They all work together to give more product, with some free especially if the sponsor pays for that, but more polished with commentary on pay per view.

 

[Anon]

I mean, if the issue is truly funds and eyeballs, then cameras should only be set up where interesting things may happen that could help market the sport. Because, once again, going back to point #2, do we really need to see shots on a dinker 250ft. hole with trees on both sides where most players will take pars anyway? When, in replacement of that, we could see EVERY shot with EVERY player at an island green, down a hill, over water, etc.

I think trying to follow a card and the narrative that develops over the course of an entire round needs to be absolutely the top priority of the people covering the tournaments.

Having a 'static camera' on a particularly challenging/scenic hole should be an addition to that narrative, not something that completely tries to replaces it.

But all the immediate turn around stuff goes to pay per view first, then to free a week later. That is the model.

The only issue with a model like this these days is the fact that it only takes one paying member to setup a series of burner Youtube accounts and your entire exclusivity goes right out the window for those that pay. And there will ALWAYS be 'that guy.'

 

[lyleoross]

Man, I just love watching a live scoring bracket, so exciting seeing the numbers updating.

ZZZZZZZZZZ, huh? Someone say somethin?

What's really funny is that the WDGT model is to get eyes on FB etc. but I'll bet there are more eyes here. This is frankly more entertaining that what is going on there.

 

[TheOtherBill]

Man, I just love watching a live scoring bracket, so exciting seeing the numbers updating.

WOW! a '2' for Uli on #10 but PB takes a 7!

bet that would have been kinda exciting to see :wall:

 

[lyleoross]

I think trying to follow a card and the narrative that develops over the course of an entire round needs to be absolutely the top priority of the people covering the tournaments.

Having a 'static camera' on a particularly challenging/scenic hole should be an addition to that narrative, not something that completely tries to replaces it.


The only issue with a model like this these days is the fact that it only takes one paying member to setup a series of burner Youtube accounts and your entire exclusivity goes right out the window for those that pay. And there will ALWAYS be 'that guy.'

You're correct. They have posted sites for each, WRC, and WRC + and while some stuff does get crossed, it's less than you'd think. The turn around is not quite a week, usually a couple of days, and some of it is pretty big, hard to get to YT. I think they make it work by having specific models for each. More detailed live coverage for the die hard, and synopsis for the less inclined. The synopsis goes quickly to WRC, not all of it, but enough that people don't go looking to YT for more content. For those who want to know who won and highlights, they don't need to go to YT. For more detailed commentary, still in summary, that goes to + for a week. And the live stuff only goes there. It's a balance.

I understand your concern, and think it's legit, I just know these guys have been at it for three years and appear to be making money at it. I suspect it is the art of timing and balance.

 

[SD86]

What's really funny is that the WDGT model is to get eyes on FB etc. but I'll bet there are more eyes here. This is frankly more entertaining that what is going on there.

I agree with you about more eyes here. I'll also say that I am one of those who refuse to use Zuckerburg's product. Won't get into the weeds on that, but Facebook is not the place to be. Yet another poor decision by Jussi.

 

[tbird888]

I like that last year's USDGC had a severe media policy, but this year, they're more than happy to let garbage streaming happen from every person with a smart phone and a data plan. One step forward, two steps back. :\

 

[biscoe]

I'm curious to see how long it's gonna be before a Chuck, or a John or one of the other designers lays out a course that is good for play, has spectator walk ways, and filming positions, stands if you will, from the outset. That requires resources and space of course, but think about doing it for one major as a start.

I know of one such course in the works- it will likely be operational in 2018.

 

[tbird888]

Is it on a working cattle farm by chance*?

*haven't been there, but HH sounds like it'd be pretty perfect.

 

[biscoe]

Is it on a working cattle farm by chance*?

*haven't been there, but HH sounds like it'd be pretty perfect.

Nope. HH is a near perfect piece of land for disc golf. If it could be polished up and manicured it would make for a spectacular filming venue, however it is farm first, disc golf second.

The property i reference is Lake Marshall outside of Montross VA. The owner is committed to building the "Augusta National of disc golf" and has the appropriate land and resources to do so. Holes are being built with how they look for video in mind as well as ease of filming. It is already possibly the best course in VA and is only about half done. Roughly 11000 feet par 72 from the tips with tons of elevation, both open and wooded, 100 acre lake with an island which is roughly 100 x 180, etc, etc.

 

[Notverygood]

Sooo....What happened to Climo?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Sooo....What happened to Climo?

he passed.

 

[lyleoross]

Nope. HH is a near perfect piece of land for disc golf. If it could be polished up and manicured it would make for a spectacular filming venue, however it is farm first, disc golf second.

The property i reference is Lake Marshall outside of Montross VA. The owner is committed to building the "Augusta National of disc golf" and has the appropriate land and resources to do so. Holes are being built with how they look for video in mind as well as ease of filming. It is already possibly the best course in VA and is only about half done. Roughly 11000 feet par 72 from the tips with tons of elevation, both open and wooded, 100 acre lake with an island which is roughly 100 x 180, etc, etc.

If it is as you say, then we fans need to demand a major there. If someone is going to support the sport like this, then we should support back.

 

[tbird888]

Nope. HH is a near perfect piece of land for disc golf. If it could be polished up and manicured it would make for a spectacular filming venue, however it is farm first, disc golf second.

Shortened description of amazing disc golf...

Thanks for sharing. I had a feeling you weren't talking about your course, but the videos make it look like it'd be great for such a thing as well. I still need to get back out to visit family in Culpepper and actually try to get out and throw it (assuming it's not at a time when it's closed, of course).

It really sounds like something special is in the works. Can't wait to hear more. Hopefully he's not sacrificing golf for filming capability.

 

[Lazerface]

Quick thought. One of the biggest dissapointments for me when watching live disc golf is the lack of times commentators offer scores or at least zoom into the board if there is one. If Terry could just pay a caddy like 50 bucks a round to feed him the scores it would be nice. Its crazy how you can watch hours of live coverage without a single reference to the scores on the card being followed. I shouldnt have to have pdga live scores up if it is available. Yea, super entitled. But you guys can make this happen right?

 

[klmdg]

Donnie Baker should be in charge of USDGC coverage.

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