[Innova] Aviar History

[jenb]

I have some questions about the Aviar molds and when they were introduced, etc. I've always heard people talk of the beaded and beadless aviars as two or more different molds, and then there are the different plastics, but (excluding the aviar xd) the PDGA document listing approved discs only lists 3 approved aviar molds.

-------------------Max.Wt.---Diam.----Ht--------RD-----InnerRD--RThick.---RDDR------RConf.------Flex.
Aviar -------------176.0------21.2-----2.0------1.5-----19.4--------0.9--------7.1--------55.75------11.34----01/01/84
Aviar Putter-------176.0------21.2-----2.0------1.5 ----19.4--------0.9--------7.1--------55.75------4.59------01/01/87
CE Aviar-----------176.8------21.3-----2.0------1.5-----19.5--------0.9--------7.0--------55.75------6.01------06/02/01

Can someone in the know please provide some history about when the beaded aviars were introduced and the different plastics, and maybe which of these discs correspond to the molds listed above?

 

[discspeed]

I've got some idea, but I'd rather let an Aviar expert answer your specific questions. One thing I do know is that a mold is 3 pieces (top, wing, and core) and most the Aviar variations just swap out one piece. With that in mind I know that there are at least 2 tops (P&A, and driver top) and 3 cores (no bead, small bead, big bead). I'm not sure if there are multiple wing sections, but it's highly possible.

 

[Three Putt]

Wouldn't the wing section be the no bead/small bead/big bead piece and the core would be the San Marino/www piece? I'm just guessing, I've never seen a golf disc mold.

 

[Kaikias]

Just a guess by the RConf.
Aviar = Large Bead = BB Aviar/Aviar Driver
Aviar Putter = No bead = Standard Aviar
CE Aviar = Small Bead Aviar

^^ in no way an aviar expert.

 

[Thumber]

Is the new Yeti a straight flyer or is it more of a hyzer approach putter?

I am looking for a good approach putter

I use DX no bead aviars for actual putting

 

[GLong]

depends on how far you are throwing it.

yeti is supposed to fly like a used BB aviar.

 

[Three Putt]

As to the OP, the original Aviar was beadless. In 1987 (I guess because that is what the list says) they added the small bead to the wing to make the disc more stable. According to what I understood they introduced the big bead Aviar not long after that, but I've never had anyone define "not long after" into an actual time frame. At any rate, by the late 80's the beadless Aviar was OOP and through the 90's you could get the small bead Aviar in the "Putt and Approach" model and the big bead with the grid stamp.

I never noticed an Aviar X mold until around 2000 or 2001, but other people say it was around in the 90's. At any rate, the Aviar X has a beefier nose than the old big bead mold. The change over was someplace in the 9X/10X era as all the 9X KC Aviars I have are the old big bead mold and all the 10X KC Aviars I've seen are the Aviar X mold. Everything I'm aware of now that has the big bead is the Aviar X mold.

The small bead mold became specific to Millennium around '06 I think. The Aviar P & A went back to a beadless wing.

Plastics are fairly easy in that there was only DX until the late '90's. There was a softer "putter" plastic that they ran the P & A in during the 90's, but it was still just DX. The 9X was the first of the KC Pro Aviars, so those would have been out late in '98 or early '99. The rest of the plastics would just follow the timeline of when those plastics were available.

That's my understanding.

 

[Three Putt]

Just a guess by the RConf.
Aviar = Large Bead = BB Aviar/Aviar Driver
Aviar Putter = No bead = Standard Aviar
CE Aviar = Small Bead Aviar

^^ in no way an aviar expert.

There was a lot of controversy about CE that everybody forgets about. The first couple of runs of CE were stiff, and it was widely rumored at the time that the PDGA had retested the CE discs and that they had flunked the flex test. It was a great big stinking deal when you went to events, somebody was always bitching about Innova's "illegal" discs. It was bad enough that at some point the CE discs were actually tested and the PDGA listed them as approved to make it clear that they were not illegal. So you see a lot of discs listed as "CE" on the approval list; that just means they were one of the retested discs.

The "Aviar" on the list is the original beadless Aviar. The "Aviar Putter" is the retooled small bead.

 

[Triflusal]

I'll probably over-explain this, but here is what I think I know about Aviars:

The original Aviars were beadless. In the late 80's they retooled the wings, one got a big bead and one got a small bead. All through the 90's the small bead was sold in a softer "putter" plastic that really wasn't all that soft by today's standards. It was sold with this stamp:

The big beads were sold in the standard DX with the grid stamp:

The grid stamp was pretty much the original Aviar stamp. My buddy who religiously swore by beadless Aviars back when the beadless was OOP had a bunch and they all had the grid stamp. None of the beadless had the P & A stamp that I'm aware of. There was at least one other Aviar stamp, but I think it was on 150 class Aviars only. I'm not really an expert on that, though.

Something to keep in mind is that nothing is ever black and white with golf discs. I have small bead grid stamped Aviars in the standard DX that I got around '95, and I have a big bead in the soft putter plastic with a tournament stamp from '93. So there were exceptions to the rule.

Right around 2000, Innova came out with new plastic lines and jacked with the stamps. The Aviar was their bread and butter disc, and people bitched about the grid stamp going away. Innova shut them up by selling a "Classic Aviar" with the grid stamp. The problem is, they never figured out what mold they wanted the Classic to be so you would see big bead and small beads. It was right about this same time that the original big bead mold was retooled into the Aviar X.

Then the Classic went out of stock for a long time. While it was out of stock they converted the P & A back to a beadless wing and shifted the DX big bead into the CFR program. When the Classic Aviar came back, it was beadless like the P & A.

So basically as far as I can tell a "Classic" Aviar can be anything and really only refers to the stamp. I hope that helps.

This is a PM I got from threeputt when I wanted the differences between classic aviars and P&As

 

[Kaikias]

There was a lot of controversy about CE that everybody forgets about. The first couple of runs of CE were stiff, and it was widely rumored at the time that the PDGA had retested the CE discs and that they had flunked the flex test. It was a great big stinking deal when you went to events, somebody was always bitching about Innova's "illegal" discs. It was bad enough that at some point the CE discs were actually tested and the PDGA listed them as approved to make it clear that they were not illegal. So you see a lot of discs listed as "CE" on the approval list; that just means they were one of the retested discs.

The "Aviar" on the list is the original beadless Aviar. The "Aviar Putter" is the retooled small bead.

Lol guess I was way off.

 

[HB Mike]

150 class stamp

Dug threw my discs and found 2 "chains" which were both small bead and a 150 class which is also a small bead.



Mike

 

[Van1]

Are the big beads the stiff domey ones and the small beads the flatter floppier ones? Or does this vary too? I think my eyes are getting bad, the beads don't seem much different in size. I only have one Avair that is stamped on the back "Big Bead Avair"...What is the approx. ratio of the two?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Only had one aviar and not even sure which one it was due to not knowing anything about anything starting out but can say it was a great slightly understable putter.

Curious if someone has enough knowledge of all the molds to list the differences and more specifically with the beads.. Big or small or none what difference does that make?

 

[discspeed]

Wouldn't the wing section be the no bead/small bead/big bead piece and the core would be the San Marino/www piece? I'm just guessing, I've never seen a golf disc mold.

I've only been in one disc manufacturing plant, so obviously I've never seen Innova's machinery. I assume that the bead is part of the core, otherwise there would have to be a flash/parting line on the inner wall of the disc where it attaches to the core. I don't remember any flash on the inner wall of any Aviar, but I'm not looking at one right now so I may be wrong.

 

[Three Putt]

I've only been in one disc manufacturing plant, so obviously I've never seen Innova's machinery. I assume that the bead is part of the core, otherwise there would have to be a flash/parting line on the inner wall of the disc where it attaches to the core. I don't remember any flash on the inner wall of any Aviar, but I'm not looking at one right now so I may be wrong.

I don't know either, and truthfully I've never looked for a parting line on any disc. I never thought about it that much.

 

[discspeed]

I don't know either, and truthfully I've never looked for a parting line on any disc. I never thought about it that much.

You wouldn't have to look for it, I imagine you would feel it. It wouldn't feel too good either as most would be dragging their fingers across it on release.

 

[Three Putt]

You wouldn't have to look for it, I imagine you would feel it. It wouldn't feel too good either as most would be dragging their fingers across it on release.

Like I said, I have no idea how they are made. I have had some beaded discs like Rocs and Sentinels that had flashing off the bottom of the bead like the bead was a feature on the wing and the core came down to make it smooth on the inside, so I've just guessed that the bead was on the wing.

 

[biscoe]

"Right around 2000, Innova came out with new plastic lines and jacked with the stamps. The Aviar was their bread and butter disc, and people bitched about the grid stamp going away. Innova shut them up by selling a "Classic Aviar" with the grid stamp. The problem is, they never figured out what mold they wanted the Classic to be so you would see big bead and small beads. It was right about this same time that the original big bead mold was retooled into the Aviar X."

the first thing innova marketed as the "classic aviar" was a beadless in standard dx plastic... that was in the late 90's...

aviar x was originally made as a prototype when juliana switched from d-craft to innova. the protos are the most overstable aviar i have ever thrown.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it... for the time being at least...

 

[tbird888]

This thread would be much better with pictures. Threeputt (or anyone really), do you have enough examples (and time) to post some profiles?

 

[Van1]

This thread would be much better with pictures. Threeputt (or anyone really), do you have enough examples (and time) to post some profiles?

All threads are better with pics!