Isamoor's ITB - a boring affair

[Brockness Monster]

They pretty buttery. I putt with them and they still approach very well

 

[isamoor]

Not even yet Spring here and I thought I could throw a couple Wraiths at one of our longer courses just because it got over 50deg outside. I mean, I did throw them, but I shouldn't have. I'm not sure I even got one over 325'. It was silly bad.

I did throw a mix of Teebirds and Leopards very well though. I should have just thrown those exclusively.

I think I'm going to put the Wraiths in a box to slow me down from physically grabbing them off the shelf for a bit.

It was super fun to get outside and huck some discs. Especially with my brother who was in town from the west coast. So it's not like it was a bad day.

 

[isamoor]

A couple weeks of just Teebirds and Leopards has been a good decision. I'm feeling confident with placing both fairways comfortably over 300' almost every time.

I'd mostly forgotten to load the wrist during the winter slump (more focused on not slipping off of slick teepads). The classic "no-snap barrier" from this amazing post: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117477

I'm also having a greater appreciation for how much variation there is between individual Teebirds and Leopards. I have a few of each that consistently go ~20' further than average, and a few that go ~20' shorter than average. I'm going to try embracing that spread and leaving the valks and wraiths shelved until it warms up further around here.

Also, all those old posts about Teebirds and Leopards going together like PB&J are of course spot on. I generally like the flat "3" tops of each. But there are some domey Teebird3s and some flat Teebirds, so it's a mix on my rack. And a handful of TL/TL3s for fun. Add in a mix of plastics, wear and weight and it's a menagerie with just two drive molds.

Well, three molds if you admit you're still bagging a firebird. But fire chickens are forever and they don't even count.

 

[isamoor]

Did another couple weeks of just teebirds and leopards for drivers. Pretty rainy in the Midwest, so didn't play much (and even when playing didn't rip full speed much). Got a dozen holes in today's sunshine and warmth though and was still happy with the fairways.

Had a 170g flat top gstar teebird3 in for max distance today. It was behaving nicely.

Also found a couple beat up buzzzes in the used bins recently. That let me go back to just buzzz for midranges (using a range of weight and wear).

As far as my "bag" goes, my biggest conundrum is Berg and Zone. They aren't the same, but it does feel a bit silly to carry both. I'm currently putting Yetis, but I toy with putting Bergs just to rationalize Berg and Zone together.

I probably give a slight edge to the versatility of the zone, but it is a significantly faster disc (with more room to screw up).

For now I should probably just give up the bag space and carry both. They're both very useful upshot discs (and shorter tee shots).

 

[Brockness Monster]

I putt with a Berg. It is nice because there is almost no chance of shooting too far past the basket, but it takes a while to get used to the spin necessary to get it to putt properly. I think you can definitely have both in the bag and not have any overlap. My Toro, for instance, does not get used anywhere near as much as my K1 Berg that I use for approaches. However, if I need that hard left fade or a short flex to get around an object I am very happy the Toro is there for me. I have found that having a more versatile putter lineup trumps a versatile driver lineup, for me.

 

[isamoor]

Yea, it is a bit of a bag space game. And it does take some oomph/spin to putt the bergs. I can definitely do it, but it does wear me down.

I left the bergs at home yesterday and just went Yeti+Zone on a pretty long/open course. There was at least one approach where I felt awkward powering down on the Zone. But I felt pretty confident with the Yetis (putting and jump putt approaches out to around 100').

I should probably do a few rounds of Yeti+Berg+Zone and see how much analysis paralysis I get during the round.

Still rocking Teebird+leopard for distance, but it's getting warmer and I'm feeling more in the swing of things. Might pull out the distance drivers soon. Especially if I can prove to myself that I can clear 350' consistently with them. (Even with my longest teebirds it's rare for me to clear 350' on flat ground.)

 

[isamoor]

Spring has broke pretty hard here. Evening rounds are now mostly in the 70s. It's amazing how much of a difference feeling warm and wearing less layers can do for your throwing.

I'd had three F2 halo star wraiths on the shelf un-thrown. I finally decided to pull out a spectrum of Wraiths and fiddle with them at a local bomber course. I did a bit of field work and then played ~9 of the longer holes.

The wind was up and there's a chunk of elevation change (even where I was doing field work), so I couldn't objectively tell if I was clearing 350' of flat ground distance with the Wraiths. But they were consistently farther than all the Teebirds, so I was at least getting useful separation.

Accuracy with the wraiths is definitely less than the teebirds (as expected). But I was at least feeling like I was hitting the nose angle. I didn't feel intimidated on the tee holding that fatter rim again. (Wraith confidence was down after that abysmal usage of them a couple months ago.)

The one halo wraith I brought was indeed stable. I couldn't get an inch of turn out of it, even into a headwind. But it was still useful (went like a longer teebird). I also banged it into plenty of trees/baskets/etc on purpose. We'll see if aggressively beating it up at least straightens it out for a touch more distance.

Next will be to bring the Wraiths somewhere I can get some objective distance checks with them. Might be able to do that this weekend if it doesn't rain too much.

 

[isamoor]

Well, I went and signed up for a mini marathon. Doing some targeted training and then completing that crowded out most discing in the last month. I also am still recovering from some planter fasciitis on my plant foot and didn't want to aggregate it before the mini. (Do good stretches and wear good shoes folks.)

The mini was last weekend and I'm fairly recovered now, but just haven't had the time to hit the field or course.

I have done a few hours of putting in the backyard though. And dang it, I'm just better with an Envy than a Yeti. If you read back through this rather mundane post, you'll see me end up swapping back and forth fairly frequently. Which is horrible for putting consistency.

I was committed to yetis. It makes sense to use a slower putter for accuracy and forgiving comebacks. I like the hand feel and I get a clean spin release.

But dang. I can just bang chains with the faster envies so much better. I go from <10% edge of C1 with yetis to a respectable-for-me ~25% with envies.

I also slightly adjusted my putting stance and am getting cleaner releases. Straddle stance, but reach back near my left knee. Causes a slight angle to the basket, but allows for a much more natural spin release.

Watch me sail some envies for 25' come backs in my first spring league night and go right back to yetis....

 

[isamoor]

Well, didn't post much here during the summer. Had a great time just getting out and playing a lot.

By the end of the summer, I'm back to putting and throwing Wizards. Envies are just too dang fast for putting. I'm trying to convince myself to offload my envy stack so I don't try and putt with them again.

I was using some pure white wizards at the tail end of summer. Stiffness was nice for consistent releases. Got a few nylon blends as winter is asserting itself.

I'm doing really well driving wizards off the tee. Took a few months of forcing myself to practice with them during field work, but I feel confident now with my grip and release.


I've also actually been enjoying throwing comets a lot. I still like my buzzzes, but throwing comets really keeps my form honest. I've been doing a wizard+zone+comet core for a month or so.

Trying out some slower winter fairways. I still have my teebirds, but I struggle to get them up to speed with a few layers of clothes on. I've got a river and a lighter crave I'm enjoying.

Also a big shout out to my rufus. I think I'm closing in on a year of using it. It's been great and I haven't had an itch to go bag shopping this whole time.

 

[isamoor]

There are still a few days in the 40s-50s right now. So I'm still doing some sporadic rounds and field work.

Had a good field work session in the high 40s. Decided to go for max distance, so I brought a spread of 9-11 speeds (and some lighter weight 7 speeds).

My takeaways?

Ain't no way I should be throwing Wraiths. Not even well seasoned 170g Wraiths. I'll probably keep my stack to retest in the summer... but then I really should be culling.

Nose angle is still so friggin' hard. I eventually whipped out the briefcase carry and felt like I was finally getting things to actual flat. I have only messed with briefcase carry style off-and-on this season though, so my hitpoint is a mess (and my accuracy is a mess). But this session really drilled into me that I need to embrace it and just learn a new hitpoint.

Some neutral Innova 9 speeds were my most consistent distance drivers. A fresh DX Thunderbird, and a seasoned GStar Valk (both max weight). I was getting these just under 350 fairly consistently. I should eventually acquire some lighter pro/gstar Thundies likely.

A fairly fresh Sapphire bombed, but it was very nose angle sensitive. Even a little nose up and it stalled out hard.

Some 160s opto Rivers did go very far. Far enough I wouldn't miss much leaving the 9 speeds at home.

 

[isamoor]

So it got cold here in the midwest. Haven't had much field work time. Did order a TechDisc a couple months ago so that is arriving soon. Went ahead and got a net setup in the basement for it.

Trying to be realistic on my goals there. My foot is recovering well since I'm not really outside much right now. (Writing this from a stationary bike to try and stay somewhat in shape). Here's what I'm guessing my starting numbers will be:

~55mph (I've clocked faster in the summer, but there's just no way I've kept that speed over the recent months).
~900rpm (I've actually tried to get better spin this year, and I think I have, but I haven't had a true measurement).
~1-2deg up nose angle (this is one thing I really want to work on with the tech disc)

One of my main goals is to adjust my form to reduce wear and tear on my plant foot. So my goal is definitely to get the nose angle way down, and perhaps the spin up (e.g. make sure my "advantage ratio" is near 50% on my backhand). I figure nose angle and spin get distance without applying more force into the brace.

To get that nose angle down, I figure I need to embrace a briefcase carry, and probably go ahead and drop down to a three finger grip for most of my throws. I've already been doing that in the limited time I get outside lately. It's going okay, but it'll be good to get some data to back that up.

Throwing my Wizards off the tee has been the biggest hurdle on the briefcase and three finger work. Wizards are still putters, so I can likely be fine with a four finger grip that gives a bit of nose up. But dang it, there's definitely times I want to drive that putter nose down and let it drift the whole flight. So I think I just need more field work time to fidget the three fingers a bit until I get something that feels appropriate on a Wizard.

I've considered mixing in a different throwing putter, but I just have never liked that kind of bag composition. And honestly, Wizards are great throwing putters (Gyro before Gyro was cool).

 

[isamoor]

Alright, had a bit of time with the TechDisc.

My starting numbers were something like:
High 50s MPH
~1100 RPM (pretty happy with this one, was a solid "50% advantage ratio")
+2-4 nose angle and a -2->-4 launch angle (basically I was airbouncing everything)
~5 deg hyzer avg

Gotta say I didn't realize I was airbouncing my drives that much. Good, useful diagnostic right off the bat.

Did 4-5 practice sessions doing things like:

Playing with bonopane to understand that yes, I can actually throw nose down.
Fighting with my wrist at the hit and the follow-through to eventually prove I can throw nose down without bonopane. (No, "pour the coffee" was not helpful. Not when I had it poured so far that I was rolling my wrist under at release.)
After getting the nose down, then gradually getting the release angle up.
And now I've got nose mostly down and release angle mostly up, but stuck with way too much hyzer.

So current numbers are something like:
Mid 50s MPH (slowed things down while I work on other bits)
~1000 RPM (more focus on release angle means more slop into RPM)
0->-2 nose angle (could go lower, but I'm still pretty proud of this one)
4-6 launch angle (again, a pretty good change)
~12 deg hyzer (this is definitely too much. Trying to work out fixing this without reverting nose angle.)

$300 for a tech disc is a significant chunk of change. I throw mostly F2s and used bin discs, but I also use a nice Pound Rufus, so I have dropped $300 on a single disc golf item before. Thus far? I'm pleased with the tech disc. It functions nicely and the online service is smooth. And getting repeatable, actionable feedback on that many data points with each throw is something I can't get any other way. Field work is still pivotal, but it's too hard to infer that mix of data based on disc flight.

 

[thatdirtykid]

My starting numbers were something like:
High 50s MPH
~1100 RPM (pretty happy with this one, was a solid "50% advantage ratio")
+2-4 nose angle and a -2->-4 launch angle (basically I was airbouncing everything)
~5 deg hyzer avg


So current numbers are something like:
Mid 50s MPH (slowed things down while I work on other bits)
~1000 RPM (more focus on release angle means more slop into RPM)
0->-2 nose angle (could go lower, but I'm still pretty proud of this one)
4-6 launch angle (again, a pretty good change)
~12 deg hyzer (this is definitely too much. Trying to work out fixing this without reverting nose angle.)

Have you gotten into the field to see how the release and nose angle improvement works for you? Less speed and spin but are you gaining consistency or distance? I have gotten to toss a tech disc a few times once and am super curious.

 

[isamoor]

Weather hasn't been great around here (I'm in Indiana, where the weather kinda helped justify the tech disc for the off season).

I did play a few cold, wet, muddy rounds. Threw mostly comets of the tee, so didn't really get to see too much difference (I threw the comets well though; I think they reinforce having good RPM/advantage ratio). I did throw Rivers off the tee a couple times. They turned a lot more than I remember. I threw one bonopane drive... straight into the ground (but nose down).

A few days later I had a ~30min field session with some neutral fairways (It was dry-ish, but I was still wearing layers for the cold). It took me almost 20min to finally admit I was still throwing them nose up. Switched to a bonpane grip for the last ~5min. Threw the first few into the ground about 50ft in from of me. Then threw the last few shots all pretty and straight. A very distinctly different flight from the subtle air bounces.

Had another full techdisc session this evening. Confirmed I was getting nose neutral at best with a normal three finger powergrip. So just said "screw it" and worked on building up the necessary calluses on my middle finger (i.e. threw 50-60 bonopane ~full speed drives).

For the last 30 bonopane drives I averaged:
51MPH (rather disappointing, but I was intentionally not focusing here)
1040RPM (a good advantage ratio actually)
-2deg nose down (and almost never nose up)
3deg launch angle (I'm accepting that >5deg launch angle will likely never feel natural to me)
9deg hyzer (this seemed much more acceptable than my earlier sets)

I'm a few hours removed and I can definitely tell I already started the callus process. We'll see if I can avoid the "blood blisters under the half-formed calluses" phase I had on my index finger. (I think some of that was due to some sloppy slippage at the hit before I really focused on RPMs though).

Did it seem like I was gaining distance? No, definitely not. Dropping ~7 MPH is a lot. But I was achieving distinctly different flight patterns when I got that driver nose down. For now I can accept that and trust that it's better to stop putting un-needed stress on my body to force a nose-up driver to go further.

Did I gain accuracy? Not really, but I'm also still learning the hit point on a bonopane grip. (It is feeling more natural, just not as natural as the index finger which probably has 100k throws on it).

 

[isamoor]

Oh, and I've bagged Valks instead of Undertakers for the last couple years. I'm suspecting I liked the Valks because they handled the air bounce drives well though.

I mention this because the Tech Disc I have is an Undertaker. So if I amass a few thousand reps with an Undertaker rim I suspect I might be interested in giving that mold another shot just due to hand feel familiarity.

 

[Art Stryker]

Oh, and I've bagged Valks instead of Undertakers for the last couple years. I'm suspecting I liked the Valks because they handled the air bounce drives well though.

I mention this because the Tech Disc I have is an Undertaker. So if I amass a few thousand reps with an Undertaker rim I suspect I might be interested in giving that mold another shot just due to hand feel familiarity.

Valkyries are great. They have a low glide so they don't get a crazy air bounce. Valkyrie was my first driver 23 years ago. Lol

Even though my bag heavily consists of Discraft I've never thrown a Undertaker. Almost put me in the mind of a sidewinder in the hand.

 

[isamoor]

Traveled a bit to play dubs at a new-to-me-course. Took Wizards, Zones, Comets and Teebirds.

There were some bomber holes where I should have at least had valks. I borrowed a fresh 175 Grace for one shot, but that was way too much disc for me right now. Got partnered with a big arm so we used most of his open drives (and most of his wooded drives... he carried me all day long.)

I did stick with the bonopane grip. I generally succeeded in getting the nose down; I can think of only a couple shots that acted nose up. In particular, the teebirds stayed much, much straighter and even landed pretty straight. I took a 150g Champion teebird as my lightest one and it did fine for uphill/tailwind fun (I never came close to burning it over, but I did get it drifting.)

My partner was definitely better; not only did we use most of his drives, he nailed a couple clutch C2 putts. I was actually putting pretty good with the Wizards today. I'd toyed with going down to Bergs to putt again, but Wizards seem to have that goldilocks amount of glide and speed for putting for me.

We ended up in a playoff for second place. My partner again had a couple good drives to get us into a final CTP challenge. I ended up pure-ing a very seasoned teebird 300' through some tight gaps, and then most importantly it barely faded and avoided OB. That got us the CTP by only about a foot.

So thus far I'm somewhat able to replicate the nose down and good spin on the course. The reduced speed definitely eats away at the distance though. I'm not ready to commit to trying to raise speed again yet... it's still just too cold around here.

 

[isamoor]

Did a quick round before hitting the grocery. Kept full stats. Did a load of Wizard, Zone, Comet, Teebird, Valk.

First harsh truth: my putting sucked. I tried to mix in some spin putts and three putted from C2 on like four holes. Need to stick with more lofty putts for my confidence.

Secondly, no matter how much I like the feel of a little flex in my putter... if it's over 42deg out, I need to be putting with Pure White/KC Pro/Electron Hard/etc. Consistent release trumps feel every time.

Third: the Valks didn't do much over the Teebirds. In field work I can push the Valks 10-20 feet further than my farthest flying Teebirds. On the course the reduced control wasn't worth it.

I birdied a ~350' flat drive. Went pin high with a valk but it skipped left to edge of circle (did make that putt with confidence). I threw a 150g Teebird as player B and parked the pin.

Half my birdies were from a zone off the tee. When the hole shapes for that I can deliver. (Although I admit that zones are very forgiving.)

I'm nervous to drive with my Wizards, and I suck at 75-100' backhand upshots (and probably would do better with a forehand zone flex line...).

I did well with comets in the woods and in the open. I felt more comfortable manipulating nose angles and intentionally threw a couple nose up comet drives.

I did have fun. Got frustrated at the frequency of three putts. Did put together a turkey in the back nine. Rating was pretty bad though (UDisc equivalent of like 825). I know what I need to work on though. It was good to be outside.

 

[discerdoo]

I'm nervous to drive with my Wizards, and I suck at 75-100' backhand upshots (and probably would do better with a forehand zone flex line...).

You might try a Berg for short approaches. I'm FH dominant and love my Zones but the Berg works better for me 150' and in. You can flick it flat or with a touch of anny and it will ride straight and drop. I'll throw a BH approach if I have to but most of the time I'm flicking a Berg.

 

[isamoor]

You're definitely right about the Berg. I can flick straight approaches inside 150' pretty accurately with a Berg (and K1 Soft is so nice...).

Not carrying a Berg was somewhat an act of stubbornness. Similar to focusing on Comets I was trying to force myself to backhand approach with a putter. I also never actually practice backhand putter approaches, so I suppose it's not shocking I suck at them.

For a while I'd been practicing Teebird thumbers in that 100-150' range. I had gotten pretty good at that and maybe I should break it back out. (It also helps season the birds, which is a win...)

Or maybe I should just bag a Berg. It just feels so overkill to do a Berg with Wizards and Zones though...


Anyway, sincere thanks for pointing out what is the logical fix (bag a Berg...)