Charlotte, NC

Kilborne TPC

3.555(based on 64 reviews)
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2 16
Redneck Machismo
Experience: 131 played 23 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Fun but too easy 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Oct 6, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

Fun course with some pretty well thought out holes. Great course for beginners or a relaxing round.

Cons:

Course is really too easy for anything more than rec play. Can be a little hard to get around from time to time.

Other Thoughts:

Decent course but just out-dated.
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3 0
CHAINSEEKER66
Experience: 15.7 years 32 played 2 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Nice course 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Sep 13, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

Played the course for the first time over the weekend. Real enjoyable day. Nice range of shots. concrete tee pads at every hole except the new #9 Overall a good course.

Cons:

Needs a some direction markers to next tee.Having never played found myself wondering on a couple of holes. But after playing 2 rounds was very familiar with the layout.

Other Thoughts:

Being new to the game this is just a general review. I usally play Reedy Creek which is where I played first. I will play this course again. One note the pictures on this review page do not reflect the new layout and shifting of some tees.
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3 1
sdecker
Experience: 32 years 27 played 16 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Decent course 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Sep 7, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

Tee pads were adequate on every hole. Signage was mostly good. The course flowed well from hole to hole so locating the next tee was never a problem. A nice mix of shorts/longs and left/right shots required does not really favor any particular style.

Overall a good course if you are in the area. I had driven up to play Renaissance and this was just a quick second round. I wouldn't drive the 3+ hours up there to play just this course though.

Cons:

There were just a few. On hole 15 there were a couple of young men who were pretty obviously peddling drugs or up to no good. I don't personally care if people want to blaze, but if I had my kids with me I'd be pissed.

There was also a random burnout dude wandering the course in a daze. I'm talking COMPLETELY shot out. If he's local and on the course all the time, I'd consider that a con. There were also random people spread out throughout the woods in weird places talking on cell phones and stuff. I've played a few courses in rougher areas, but this one was a step above.

Other Thoughts:

The burnout dude creeped me out at first, but then we just labeled him as a zombie and got a good kick out of watching him shamble around - oo000hhhhhh, 'more brains' ooo0000hhh.

Good times, just not the best course I've ever played. Not bad, but not great either. If you're in the area, go enjoy it and tell the zombie I said hi. :)
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9 0
sloppydisc
Diamond level trusted reviewer
Experience: 15.4 years 201 played 147 reviews
3.00 star(s)

All Around Solid 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 21, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

Good tee pads on every hole. Good balance of left and right dog legs. Clean fairways and no serious rough or underbrush to deal with when errant shot goes in woods. New multiple baskets on many holes to add to variety and difficulty. Look's like there will also be some new tee pads also.

Cons:

Not a lot of cons. Course is in a park near a neighborhood so you have to deal with non-golfes. I had 2 kids biking down fairways and about 5 people using the fairways as walking trails. Not the course's fault, but something you have to deal with anyway. Course is being improved so the the signs aren't updated yet. As a first time player I had to find some of the new baskets by accident. Some long walks between holes.

Other Thoughts:

I really liked the course itself, but the non-golfer activity does mess with the enjoyment of the round a little. The improvements being done will make the course better once they are all done. New signs marking the multiple basket positions would really help. Looks like the Charlotte Disc Golf Club is doing a good job trying to improve the course. I would definitely play again when I am in Charlotte. Once everything is done I think the course could easily earn a 3.5 or even a 4.
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11 0
bettsjc
Silver level trusted reviewer
Experience: 15.2 years 39 played 30 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Solid DG course, lacking very little 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Jul 5, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

[UPDATED 9/20/11, with rating up to 4.0 because of recent love given to the course]

Located in a multi-purpose park, Kilborne offers alot to disc golfers of any level of play. Each hole has a long and short combo, either with tees, baskets or both, with the exception of hole 8 which is currently the same on both layouts. All baskets are in excellent condition, and all recently stolen baskets have been replaced. All tees are concrete(except for long 7 and 9 as of 9/20/11). New tee signs at all holes are sufficient, par, distance, and line shape posted(laminated printed paper attatched to posts). Nevermind the fact that the name of the course is misspelled on the tee signs. Benches at all tee pads except hole 10 and trash cans at about every tee.

This course stays fairly clean of litter, thanks to all who collect trash and dump it in the next can. Most of the wooded areas on the course are free of underbrush, which makes it quite tough to lose a disc that is close to the fairway.

The course has a mix of open and tight shots, left and right dog-legs.

With dual tee/basket placements, this course could be played as four different courses, keeping the course fresh for advanced players, and allowing beginner/intermediate players to play with little frustration.
Short tee/short basket: Beginner/Intermediate
Long tee/short basket: Intermediate/Advanced
Short tee/long basket: Intermediate/Advanced
Long tee/long basket: Advanced/Pro

In addition to the different combos to play, try the "Clash Layout". Layout designed for the Carolina Clash 2011, and will be used in future tournaments. Par 58;
Hole;Basket/Pin (S=short, L=long,)
1;S/L, 2;S/S, 3;S/S, 4;S/S, 5;L/S, 6;S/L, 7;S/S, 8;S/S, 9;S/S, 10;S/L, 11;S/S, 12;S/L, 13;S/S, 14;S/L, 15;S/L, 16;S/S, 17;S/S, 18;S/L. Par 4s are #s 6, 12, 15, 17.

Cons:

Lack of elevation is the only true downfall of the course. Some holes, even though they run through the woods, have a wide and forgiving fairway which play fairly easy without having to worry about terrain. Holes 14 and 15 have mild elevation compaired to the rest of the course, but this is a pretty easy walking course as it is mostly flat.

Anything else that may be considered a con would just be nitpicking. The course is under new direction, and those currently in charge have been putting their asses into turning the course around into a clean and beautiful natural experience.

Other Thoughts:

A course for all levels of play, Kilborne is a somewhat technical course and can require a variety of shots. Most holes would not qualify as "let 'r rip" holes. Strategy plays a huge role in a good round at Kilborne.

Long tees to long baskets is known as "Skillborne", and was recently added for use for the 2012 PDGA Worlds, which will be played in Charlotte. Thank you to CharlotteDGC and the Kilborne Krew for the addition of the new tees and baskets, along with the constant upkeep of this beautiful course.

Favorite Holes: 14, 18, 4

Least Favorite: 9, 16, 7

PLAY SKILLBORNE!
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11 0
The Valkyrie Kid
Diamond level trusted reviewer
Experience: 45.9 years 1562 played 1507 reviews
3.50 star(s)

Lovely Wooded Course Which Can Be Enjoyed By All! 2+ years

Reviewed: Played on:Jul 18, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

Kilbourne is a pretty basic, yet lovely course, set in a large multi-use park. Most of the course seems to play away from the park users although I did run into some joggers and a couple of walkers. The regular course had 17 concrete tees and and one natural. Thye were very nice tee signs but almost no next signs or navigational aids. Even without the next tee signs, the course was fairly simple to navigate as I played it for the first time. There is a more difficult option here, play the Skilbourne course, which appears to be much more challenging. Clever name too. The fairways are wooded but open enough that they are not pinball throws, like a couple at Squirrel Lake. This is a course that most everyone could play and enjoy, from beginners to the more advanced types. I guess the big arms might be disappointed with the lack of room to really air it out on. The course terrain is thick enough that you can often hear the other golfers but you still have that feeling of being out in the woods hiking alone. Wonderful feeling of solitude.

Cons:

There wasn't one hole that got me all excited about being a signature hole. They were all just really solid disc golf holes. I got a little confused when I finished # 1 , played #2 and birdied it, and then the next hole is also # 2. I didn't really l approve of # 10 playing right by the ball field. I'm sure more than a few errant throws end up disrupting the ballgames there.

Other Thoughts:

This is just another very solid, very enjoyable courses in an area already rich in courses. Charlotte golfers, you are a very lucky group to have this plethora of courses in your area. Us visitors from other parts of country are so impressed with the choices you have here. And more than a little bit jealous, too.
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13 0
JD Heel
Bronze level trusted reviewer
Experience: 17.2 years 88 played 19 reviews
3.50 star(s)

Addictive 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Apr 23, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

- Kilborne has a lot of variety, particularly since the baskets are moved from short to long positions throughout the year. Some courses have holes that aren't distinguishable - where many seem to run together - but Kilborne definitely isn't like that. Every hole stands apart.

- The front nine is considerably easier/shorter than the back, so that gives you the opportunity to get a rhythm going into the back nine. The toughest holes are the stretch from 15 to 17, and that's how it should be in my opinion.

- This has all the amenities that a classic disc golf course should have: good, long concrete tees, signs with hole maps, benches, trash cans at most holes, etc. Some of the signs have taken a beating over the years, but most are still in good shape.

Cons:

- It can get a little backed up during the week, and it's a bit of a hike to #10 if you want to play the back nine first to avoid the crowds at #1. That's a minor issue for most, perhaps, but I always take that into account when courses are busy.

- #3 is throwing over the edge of a soccer field, and many times the soccer players drift into range of your shot. It can get a little frustrating at times trying to get folks out of the way so you can tee off there.

- To a lesser extent, hole #1 throws over an area that many patrons walk through to get from the parking lot to the soccer fields and rest of the park. You have to keep an eye out to make sure folks are paying attention enough not to walk through your shot.

- Holes #4 and 5, particularly 5 when the basket is in the long position, are close to some houses that take away some of the aesthetic aspect of the park. That side of the park can get a bit trashy at times.

- The back nine can really take you far away from the parking lot area, particularly holes 14-16. That comes into play in the early evening because the park closes around dusk... and sometimes earlier. I've been stuck out around hole #15 when the siren has gone off to signal the park's closing, and I had to huff it to get back to the parking lot to keep from getting locked in the park. Pay close attention if it starts to get dark and you're still out on the course.

- Navigation can be confusing. I've gotten tripped up finishing #6 and walking to the right to the next closest hole, which is #14. You actually have to walk to the left to find #7. Also, walking from #5 to #6 can be confusing because there's a walking trail that goes through that area. If possible, consult a course map beforehand to figure out the navigation.

Other Thoughts:

Kilborne is good for beginners and more advanced players. I feel like it's a 'tweener course - not the toughest in Charlotte, but not the easiest, either. It's a very addictive course, particularly if you're just learning the game and trying to improve.

*** UPDATE ***

- Kilborne has been redesigned to further differentiate between the Kilborne and Skillborne layouts. The old #1 basket has been removed from the trees next to the road, and the new #1 basket is across the small field on the left side now, away from the road. Also, the old #1 tee is now the Skillborne tee, and the new regular tee is ahead to the right between the trees and parking lot.

- Old #2 has been completely removed, and that basket is now the new #1 basket for the Skillborne layout.

- Because #2 has been removed, old holes 3-9 are now 2-8 and a new #9 has been added. It's a short hole that's squeezed back into the woods between 8 and 10 coming back toward the baseball field. You actually have to walk through a small path and then down half the fairway to get to the tee, and this could be problematic if someone is teeing off when you reach the fairway.
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3 2
sloshed
Experience: 21 played 11 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Love this course 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:May 25, 2009 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

Course Layout
Good mix open wooded
Condition of Course
Enjoyment factor
Fair use of elevation changes

Cons:

Signage is there but not in good condition as of date last played
risk reward is not that great on most holes

Other Thoughts:

Wife and I play this one when we come to town. There is something about this course we both love. Would highly recomend it to anyone.
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0 3
honeycu4
Experience: 28 years 53 played 10 reviews
3.00 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:May 27, 2009 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

Good design with a few multi-shot holes. Must take advantage of easier holes as a few holes provide a nice challenge. Fairways are a must on most holes as rough and angles to pins can be very challenging. For me it is kind of a mix between Reedy and Sugaw.

Cons:

Don't care for the park.
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11 5
Dave242
Gold level trusted reviewer
Experience: 29.9 years 394 played 276 reviews
4.00 star(s)

A- = A Great Course! 2+ years

Reviewed: Played on:Dec 30, 2008 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

What I personally like and how this course stacks up:
1) Holes with good risk/reward -- A-
2) Holes that have rewarding birdie opportunities -- A
3) More wooded than open - lots of variety of shots required caused by hole shape and topography -- A
4) Natural beauty (Appalachian beauty preferred) and seclusion -- B
5) Bonus amount for multi-shot holes with defined landing zones, good risk/reward and multiple options to play them -- C+

Other Thoughts:

It's all about feeding the addiction, so I ranked this course subjectively based on my own "personal addiction factor". The grades above tell how well the course will draw me back to itself again and again and again. Since I have played a decent number of courses (115 18-hole, 50 9-hole as of early 2009), my hope is that players/explorers who have similar addiction tastes will find my ratings list helpful as they choose courses to play and explore.

Over time, I expect to fill some of my reviews in with more descriptive verbiage...if what I can add anything to what has already been written. For now, my list is more important to me than the verbiage of my reviews.

I fully expect others with different tastes/philosophies to disagree with me....that's the fun of things here. See my profile for my rating philosophy.

Oh....and a PS: I love the online "Be the Disc!" narrated fly-by videos! :)
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12 0
skamasterhenrik
Experience: 16 years 49 played 13 reviews
3.50 star(s)

good for practice and friendly competitioin 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Apr 8, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

-Good variety of holes, mostly wooded but plenty of room for slinging
-Rates highly in the fun factor, you'll be back here time and time again
-Well kept, decent signage
-Two layouts that offer variety depending on your skill level
-Great place to practice and try new shots
-Kilborne is a mid-range mecca

Cons:

-Difference between the normal and skill layout is immense. I haven't tried skillborne yet, it's intimidating.
-Kinda busy, football (soccer) matches on the weekends (not a bad thing, but salient all the same)

Other Thoughts:

Kilborne is a fun course, plain and simple. There is great variety in the holes. A beginner can come out here and shoot a decent round, then be disappointed by their next. It will test your mid-range game, there really is no need for distance drivers. Anyone can shoot under par here, but its not guaranteed - therein lies the appeal.
Hardest holes:
-Six: not necessarily difficult, but it is lengthy and gradually doglegs right. One missed throw in the woods and say goodbye to that birdie chance.
-Seventeen: a beast, with distance and trees a constant threat.
Easiest holes:
-One: very open, a good drive will secure that birdie
-Two: very open, so much so they have a soccer field there. That's the hardest part, not hitting anyone!

My favorite hole:
-Fourteen: when the evening sun hits the trees just right....and the leaves (in the fall) are glistening, well, you get the point. It's a scenic hole and it's where I sank my first long long "putt" when I first started playing - roughly a 100 footer.

UPDATE:
I'm not the biggest fan of the change at Kilborne, but it certainly doesn't detract from the overall rating. The new hole #9 is garbage, you have to cross the fairway of #8 to get to it, then you have a bout 7-8 feet of space to get it into the fairway. It feels forced, and I hate forced dg design.
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7 0
Youngblood
Experience: 15.2 years 11 played 6 reviews
3.00 star(s)

An extremely enjoyable course! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Mar 30, 2009 Played the course:once

Pros:

I played this course after 4 straight days of a soaking rain and the course was extremely dry with only minimal mud spots. The course is laid out well with some tricky shots due to trees. There are sitting areas at nearly every hole. No excessive walking between any holes. All they players playing were kind and accommodating. Cement tee pads at every hole.

Cons:

The course is very old and allot of tee markers were missing. The baskets are hard to see at a distance because the markers have been stolen or broken off. However all holes did contain baskets. A few unsavory people walking around, not sure I would play this course as a solo. (Although nobody bothered me while I was playing).

Other Thoughts:

I really enjoyed this course, I would have loved to give more technical aspects of the course, but I am new to the sport so I am just keeping the review to the facts. I drove about 20 minutes to this course (Well worth it!) and highly recommend this course if you are ever in the Charlotte area. I will absolutely be back to play this course again in the very near future!! I have updated this review as I originally thought they were no bathrooms around, but I was incorrect. The park does indeed host bathrooms.
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2 12
tspeedb
Experience: 8 played 6 reviews
4.50 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Mar 5, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

what a cool course, no one i know doesnt like it. built very well and very fun. open and in woods.

Cons:

not very long holes but a good lil drive. kinda in a bad neighborhood.

Other Thoughts:

i like it!!! i play there alot. also park closes at sunset
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3 3
willstradamus
Experience: 25.6 years 32 played 10 reviews
3.00 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Feb 12, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

-wooded with very well defined fariways
-fun for all levels of players
-well maintained course
-short version is great for getting a round in on a lunch break
-benches on almost every hole
-restrooms and other facilities between hole 1 and 18

Cons:

-can be difficult to navigate on your first trip
-a really busy course (which could be a good thing as it shows how many people enjoy the course)

Other Thoughts:

the locals dont call it "skillborne" for nothing
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7 1
DiscJunkie
Silver level trusted reviewer
Premium Member
Experience: 15.9 years 40 played 29 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Good test of skills 2+ years

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Oct 7, 2008 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

Great test of skills. Well-defined fairways. Great use of alternate tees and baskets. Length and accuracy required. Combination of open and tight wooded shots. The park is very well maintained and clean.

Cons:

Terrible flow of the holes. Very difficult to find the next tee, unless you play with a local. Easy to get lost. The course borders on several playing fields and an errant throw could wind up in the field of play.

Other Thoughts:

This is how a wooded course should be designed. Well-defined fairways and difficult to rescue a bad shot. This is my favorite wooded course. Just a short ride from Sugaw in one direction, and a little longer to Reedy Creek in the other direction.
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8 1
_.-Dut-._
Silver level trusted reviewer
Experience: 25.3 years 111 played 34 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Skillborne 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Oct 28, 2008 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Very nice technical course. Well drawn out and open fairways give plenty of room to work your shots, however thick woods do outline several holes, which will punish inaccurate throws. Park offers restrooms and plenty of trashcans.

Other Thoughts:

Kilborne offers a great variety of shots and the park is very well maintained. Very deceiving fairways can humble you if you underestimate them. Like most of the Charlotte courses this one is a must play.
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9 1
governmentthief
Experience: 16 years 18 played 6 reviews
3.00 star(s)

Fun! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Nov 23, 2008 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Fun course. Good for a beginner like me, but has enough challenge (especially on the back 9) to make it fun for advanced players too. Nice design allows for lots of different shots: some require accuracy, some distance, right and left doglegs. 16 and 17 can be beasts if you dont get a decent drive. Mostly wooded with only holes 1, 3, 10, 12 and 18 giving room for some reckless slinging.

Cons:

Can get a bit crowded on the weekends. Not everyone seems to want to use the ubiquitous trash cans available. Hole 3 is often interfered with by nets from the soccer matches.

Other Thoughts:

If you need to take a poo, be aware that the stall in the men's restroom is quite open and has no door! Yikes! Lots of soccer played here so try not to bean a soccer guy in the head on hole 3.
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16 0
YonderScott
Bronze level trusted reviewer
Experience: 15.8 years 54 played 18 reviews
4.00 star(s)

My Favorite Charlotte Course 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Jul 2, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

This is easily my favorite Charlotte course, Reedy Creek being second. I love the seculeded feel you have on most holes. This is a woods course that is fairly open. 14-17 are my favorite 4 holes, they are really tough but fair. Basket placements make them a challenge to me. I would recommend anyone of any level to play this if you are in Charlotte. There are multiple baskets on some holes. Benches on every hole, tee signs, picnic tables on some holes, plenty of trash cans, and restrooms near the break between 9 and 10. You need to be in the fairway with your throws, getting into the trees can really wreck your score here, and to me that is a plus.

Cons:

In the fall you have a ton of leaves on almost every hole, making it impairative to keep an eye on where your disc lands. And it helps to throw a bright disc. There are a couple of holes that might be hard on a first timer to this course as far as finding the next hole. Transition from 5 to 6 comes to mind, go left on the walking path. The tee signs are starting to date and I would question the length on a few of them. They are soon to be replaced.

Other Thoughts:

This is my favorite course in the Charlotte area. But I do have to say I don't have big D. The Killy layout is great for novice up to intermediate. The Skilly layout will challange anyone. For me this course is just a great walk through the woods with a great course thrown in.

Update-A lot of recent work has been done on this course. #1 and #2 have changed and there is a new #9. The intention was to get back to the original intent of the course prior to the park renovations. The Skilborne layout has been completed and is a monster layout with a par 70. Once the concrete tees for that layout and the new tee signs are in I will give a better updated review.
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14 0
borndasaur
Experience: 16 years 18 played 4 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Kilborne/Skillborne 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Nov 5, 2008 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Two course layouts using 2 tees and 2 baskets on most of the holes. Signage is being upgraded to reflect major changes (see below). The long course (Skillborne) will challenge pros while the short course challenges rec players. Good mix of long/short, right/left doglegs, slopes and flat keep it interesting. Drinking fountain and indoor restrooms available. The front nine loop back to the restrooms and the back nine loop back to the parking lot. All concrete tees on the short course, most tees have benches and trash cans. Some tees have picnic tables.

Cons:

The paths for the course cross walking trails at some points which causes some confusion. Watch out for pedestrians using fairways as walking paths. The fairway on hole 2 is pinched between woods and a heavily used soccer field which can cause some delay. (The soccer fields are temporarily closed so this problem is gone for now.) The fairway on hole 10 borders a fenced baseball field and shots lost high and short to the left will be over the fence.

Other Thoughts:

The park closes promptly at sunset. Leave when you hear the horns or sirens.

There have been major changes made to the Skillborne layout. New, natural tees have been created for holes 1 thru 9, and 11 thru 18. Hole #1 has been changed to throw from the #1 tees to what was the #2 basket. The old #1 basket has been moved to a new short position. The hole numbers on the front 9 have been changed. A new #9 hole has been added between new #8 and #10. A long basket has been added to #18 This new layout emphasizes both accuracy and control lending new meaning to the name SKILLborne. Par is set at 70.
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18 2
DiscGolfCraig
Diamond level trusted reviewer
Premium Member
Experience: 19.9 years 596 played 543 reviews
3.50 star(s)

2+ years

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Jul 21, 2008 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Good, challenging course. Has plenty of birdie chances as well as holes where par is a challenge. It might have the best combo of easy, birdie holes and challenging holes in the area.
- Course has a longer layout "Skillborne." It gives a good, tougher alternative to the standard course layout. Only downside to Skillborne layout is that regular baskets are all in short position, meaning more birdie chances and less challenge.
- # 15 - 17 is one of the toughest 3-hole stretches you'll face. All 3 are more than 400 ft with difficult basket locations. If you're off your game, it can be a rough ending to an otherwise good round. To get the true sense of these holes, play to Skillborne baskets from regular tees.
- Course is easy to navigate. Holes flow nicely from one basket to next tee pad. Only exception for first timers might be going from 5th basket (in long position) to 6th tee and 6th basket to 7 tee (14th hole is parallel to 6th, leading to possible confusion.)
- Good tee signs. Leave little doubt about layouts.
- Good variety of wooded and open holes. Most wooded holes aren't too tight, meaning you can still let your tee shots fly and not be penalized.

Cons:

Course can get dirty. On some holes, houses back up to fairway, and you can see all sorts of trash.
- The course isn't in a horrible part of town, but it's not the greatest area. Crime is a problem in the area, so hide all your valuables in the car.
- Fairway for #2 is the edge of a wide open field, which is sometimes used for soccer games. English tends to be the second language for many of the players, so there can be a hindrance trying to inform people you're trying to play through.
- Course and walking paths interweave throughout park. I've come across/nearly hit non-DGers walking the course, thinking it was still a trail. Again, English was a second language in this situation. - In the fall, leaves can be thick on ground. I've seen on numerous occasions people (including myself) lose or nearly lose discs in the fairway because the leaves build up so much on the ground. It's one thing for the leaf-coverage to be thick in the woods, but it's frustrating when you're having to search for discs in the fairway.
- As mentioned above, all original baskets are now permanently in the short positions due to Skillborne layout. While it's good for beginners, it does take away some of the difficultly/tradition of the original course, notably in the closing stretch of holes #15 - 17. Instead of being 3 400+ par 4s, there're all easy par 3s.

Other Thoughts:

Skillborne is a good challenge for the advanced players; beginners will enjoy the shorter, regular layout.
- I always loved some of the hole layouts on this course. Yes, there are some repetitive hole layouts, especially on the shorter layout, but the tougher holes make up for that.
- Skillborne course is really good, while the short layout is just so-so. Skillborne is closer to a 4, but the short layout, is barely a 3 (not as good as Sugaw or Reedy). As noted above, to get the sense of the old-school Kilborne layout, play some of the regular tees to the Skillborne baskets, notably #4, 15 - 17. In those layouts, those holes are par 4, add in #12 as a par 4, and you have the old, Kilborne long, par 59 layout.
- Had my first ace ever on #13, so this course will always be a personal favorite for me.
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