Poll - Hold Spots for Women?

[JeCroisQue]

really? you think that men need reserved spots? do men need special encouragement to sign up, since they constitute 98% of the competitive fields in basically every event that isn't women only?

this has nothing to do with gender equality. it has everything to do with growing the competitive side of the sport for women.

You just proved my point and didn't answer any of my questions. Men don't need reserved spots and neither should women. Men don't need encouragement to sign up and neither should women.

It does have something to do with gender equality (albeit not a huge amount). I was using AA as an example of how these approaches don't work. Women should sign up because they love to play disc golf, I have yet to hear a reason that should perturb them from doing so.

As I said, if you want to grow the competitive side of the sport for women, why not just have women's divisions. Lets see how many show up, and then reassess the situation from there.

 

[PhattD]

I would have no objection to a TD holding spots for women. I would object to a TD being forced to hold spots for women. And if you are in an area where women are getting a raw deal in the sport you need to move to Michigan. One of our local disc wholesalers effectively sponsors all women Ams that enter his tournaments. For $5 they get to play in a PDGA sanctioned tournament they get the same players pack the men do and he establishes payouts for the divisions as though they had paid a $25 entry fee.

 

[Dsplayname]

On the one hand, I feel like it would be beneficial to the sport if we could, somehow, get more women to play, and to get some of the tiny amount of publicity. I think it would help grow the sport in general.
On the other hand, more women would mean more nagging from my girlfriend, less possibilities of getting her to come out and play, and probably less play time for me.

 

[Old Bassman]

I would have no objection to a TD holding spots for women. I would object to a TD being forced to hold spots for women. And if you are in an area where women are getting a raw deal in the sport you need to move to Michigan. One of our local disc wholesalers effectively sponsors all women Ams that enter his tournaments. For $5 they get to play in a PDGA sanctioned tournament they get the same players pack the men do and he establishes payouts for the divisions as though they had paid a $25 entry fee.

The sponsorship thing is a great idea and i wish we could have more people do this. Maybe we could do this personally to sponsor someone we know. (Light turns on!)

 

[Countchunkula]

Seems like a good idea to me. My wife plays tourneys, sometimes Int Women, sometimes Novice. She would prefer to play with the girls, but if the division is too small she may end up on a Ladies/Juniors card. It can feel rather insulting to be an adult playing with kids. So she is left to play MA4 with a bunch of dudes who REALLY don't want to get beat by a girl. I'm for most anything that will get more women on the course.

I like the sponsorship idea as well. Women are still such a small percentage that it wouldn't put too much of a dent in the overall payout.

 

[jenb]

Maybe hold spots for the grandmasters. We're slow.

Kinda joking but I could make an argument for that. So now they have to hold spots for women and grand masters. Then what about the Masters? If there's an advance division they might want spots held for them also?

I would ask why one group over another?

I already thought about the possibility of holding spots for age 50+. You guys are the ones in a position to sort of understand what women are facing regarding registering for tournaments, except you're not as young and broke. But the main difference is that disc golf equipment manufacturers really want to tap the female market demographic. It could be huge, especially considering what we supposedly spend on clothes. Ba dump bump. But also, the over 50 competititor crowd will surely grow with time, but the female demographic is proving to be a tough nut to crack. Extreme measures are required.

 

[jenb]

But also, you 50+ age guys are mostly skilled enough to play int or advanced or at least rec if there is no GM or Legends division. Not so the 725 rated woman. She can't play juniors either.

 

[lavon_andy]

I'm down for holding spots, not like holding 7% of the available slots is any kind of significant number.

Actually, it's kind of sad that number is so low. I'd love to see more women playing so my mom/fiance have more people to play against and don't have to play against a bunch of dudes who hate getting beat by women.

/rant

DFW seems to have a few semi serious female disc golfers at least (oh, and Paige Pierce!)

 

[jenb]

Yeah, we don't have the number of ladies that you see in Austin TX or some places in Michigan, but we're working on it.

 

[araytx]

Well, it is a mixed bag for me. I definitely see the reason to do something to encourage more women, especially Am women to enter tournaments. I liked the idea of sponsorship or some other incentive. I'm reluctant to go all the way to simply holding spots. The reality is that the unfilled Holds would need to be released about 3 days before the tourney (if people are on the waitlist in other divisions) in order to give the TD the best chance to run an organized tournament. I'm not sure it would be worth it. I am guessing that the child care and other issues for ladies would likely still be the same 2 or 3 days before a tourney, just like a couple weeks out. Maybe a sponsorship or bigger player pack for AM women might encourage early sign-up to avoid the chicken thing.

Ironically as a 50+ am man, here in DFW we nearly always make an Adv. Grand division; several times we've had 3 or 4 cards. But I do remember having to play with the youngsters in intermediate, and yes, I was the one who felt out of place.

Ultimately, I do believe that growing the sport's participation should be one of all of our priorities. Not just am women, but juniors as well. After all they're the future of the sport. I'll take an attitude I learned from another DG club. At our minis, if women or juniors show up, I make sure they all get something -- at least until we can make them regulars.

Long answer to a short question.

 

[DiscNutt123]

Should've ended the thread when I said. Stop worrying about a division forming and just sign up. If all the women that sit there and worry don't sign up...then of course a division won't form. This is ridiculous.

 

[jenb]

Should've ended the thread when I said. Stop worrying about a division forming and just sign up. If all the women that sit there and worry don't sign up...then of course a division won't form. This is ridiculous.

Wow. I think you've done it. I think you've totally changed human nature with one post. You've altered reality! Thanks so much!

 

[DiscNutt123]

Wow. I think you've done it. I think you've totally changed human nature with one post. You've altered reality! Thanks so much!

Well it's the truth. Of course a division won't form if everyone sits there and waits for it to form. Just sign up and there won't be this issue.

 

[jenb]

So instead of a practical solution to a problem, we should say the problem shouldn't exist and then not solve it?

 

[Johnny Conservative]

I find nothing wrong with this suggestion. We have to remember that there are little girls that like disc golf, and it would be nice for them to see a person of their gender playing in an event with the top pros. I voted that I agree with the suggestion.

 

[gcanter2376]

Women

I am strongly in favor of holding spots up until a week before. My wife plays alot and gets the shaft all the time. In our monthly she has been the only woman so far and has got bunched into the same card as the juniors everytime. That is insulting. She has skipped several tourneys because she wants to play womens and not mens and she does not want to be on the jrs card everytime either. We should be doing everything to encourage women to play. Thats a huge demographic that has been largely untapped in most areas. Thats a huge oppertunity for us to grow.

 

[mfcastillo17]

I don't feel the need to "hold" spots for women, provided that they have the same opportunity to register as everyone else does. I didn't feel the need to do so for my upcoming event. http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=12627 We have 18 women signed up in a field of 90 players, making 20% of our field women across 5 different divisions. I also found that the women who wanted to play signed up very early and made sure they were signed up before we filled. I have 20+ deep waiting list none of which are women. I have also not had any calls or emails from women begging for a spot in a tournament that has been full for some time. Thanks for getting it together early ladies!

 

[DavidSauls]

I would have no objection to a TD holding spots for women. I would object to a TD being forced to hold spots for women.

Agreed.

It shouldn't be an issue at all on events that don't fill quickly (or don't fill at all).

I've seen quick-filling events hold spots for various divisions---why not women? We hold a certain number of Pro spots at the Earlewood Classic. Worlds holds a certain number of spots for Masters, Grandmasters, etc.

One benefit is to fill divisions in increments of 4 or 5, to minimize mixed cards of any sort.

One benefit of holding spots for women is just to say that women are welcome at our tournament. That in itself may encourage more women to register.

But because situations vary across the country, I don't see why it should be mandated everywhere.

 

[JRW III]

I am male and I strongly disagree with reserving spots for any protected division. All players have an equal opportunity to register early.

One reason we are reluctant to preregister early is because we don't know whether a division will form.

This could be said for several of the protected divisions. If a player wants the advantages of a protected division, then they must accept the disavantages as well. Better to do away with the protected divisions than to have to start reserving spots as well.

Plus, a lot more women than men have to live paycheck to paycheck.

Players in tournaments come from all different backgrounds. This is way too large of a generalization to hold up.

Plus, a lot more women than men have to ..... arrange childcare at the last minute.

This is the very reason I don't get to play as many tournaments as I would like to. I would love to be able to wait until the last minute to figure out if I can make it. Unfortuneately, it does not always work that way. I think it would be unfair to favor one class when many people share this problem.

And if the mom is playing, odds are the dad is too, and the expense to the family is doubled or tripled, so it tends to be a last minute decision if everything comes together.

The expense is doubled or tripled because the family is getting double or triple the benefit. There is no requirement for both Mom and Dad to play, if only one can play due to personal scheduling/budget issues, then it is a personal choice between Mom and Dad to decide who should play.


In short, the field at a disc golf tournament is generally made up of a broad section of the community with diverse backgrounds. All of the different groups have different contraints. While some may have more than others, they are generally personal in nature, and I do not see any reason why one class should get preferential treatment over the other.

 

[billnchristy]

How would you guys feel to be put on a card with kids?

Let me tell you, it SUCKS.

If a full card is not reached for the girls then they get put with Juniors or bottom Rec (or Novice) card.

Bottom card is complete crap (even I have never been that low) and usually has attitude issues.

Many women, if not all of them would rather NOT play then end up on these cards because it completely ruins their game and their enjoyment.

Some move up to INT men or beyond so they can avoid it, which basically means they are donating.

Stop crying equality when it is NOT equal unless you are volunteering to be the tournament's babysitter too.