2 wrongs= right?

[Innovadude]

This basically concerning the Black Locust course. Or course design in general. A lot of people have me confused for HATING it, I don't really hate it, in fact I think most (90%+) holes are well designed, but as a course as a whole it doesn't work together.

This is because it has a lefty vs. righty shot ratio of at least 2 to 1. Meaning it favors lhbh or rhsa shots twice as often or even more often than lhsa or rhbh shots.

Some recent reviewers seem to think this is OK, because 'every other course favors 'rhbh' shots more often'. That's fine for them to believe that if they want.
I don't think 2 wrongs (a lefty bias course to make up for other righty bias courses) make for a right.

Every course should be fairly balanced for all players, and for more shot variety and for practice.

Well I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[colodiscgolfer]

2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 rights make a left.

People that think a course favors one hand or the other just need to work on the anhyzer shots more, or work a forehand shot into their game.

 

[JoshBusche27]

2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 rights make a left.

haha,

 

[thepowerofpancakes]

Every course should be fairly balanced for all players, and for more shot variety and for practice.
.

I dont know about that...seems like courses should be designed according to the land that is there to work with. Balance between right and left handed doesnt seem necessary. I wouldnt want every course to be the same, what fun would that be. If every hole was a lefty or fh shot that would be awesome, i have never seen that.....

 

[LittleWoodenBoy]

People that think a course favors one hand or the other just need to work on the anhyzer shots more, or work a forehand shot into their game.

 

[billnchristy]

Deja Vu!

 

[Roc1Time]

I dont know about that...seems like courses should be designed according to the land that is there to work with. Balance between right and left handed doesnt seem necessary. I wouldnt want every course to be the same, what fun would that be. If every hole was a lefty or fh shot that would be awesome, i have never seen that.....

Agreed. What about those courses that you have 2 or 3 shots to get to the pin? Is that not fair because most people cant get there? Courses that use the land they are built on are some of the best courses around. Some examples that I have played include but not limited to East Metro, Both Hill and Meadow, Live Oak Gold, the beast, and many more. Every one of those courses dont favor a single player except a good one and one that can keep his mind right. And each one of those a great for their own reasons. And thats why you should work on all shots, so you cant complain about one favoring a certain type of player

 

[Innovadude]

People that think a course favors one hand or the other just need to work on the anhyzer shots more, or work a forehand shot into their game.

See I just can't get down with that "logic". I view courses individually on their merits. Played more than anyone else ever has, too. People can learn sidearm from 6 sidearm holes, it doesn't take 12. If they are naturally good at turnovers or sidearm how will they ever practice hyzering then?

Also, if they are all favoring lhbh or rhsa, then how will a left handed player ever learn to throw turnovers or sidearm? Which they will need at most other courses.

Just doesn't pass the logic test.

It's not a complaint just a critique. I can throw sidearm. I will need elbow surgery if I play there every day but I can throw it.

 

[Dave242]

I dont know about that...seems like courses should be designed according to the land that is there to work with. Balance between right and left handed doesnt seem necessary.

You are right that a lot of times designers have got to make the best of the hand of cards (the land and design constraints) dealt them. But....I do not believe the purpose of this site is to grade how well the designer maximized the potential of what was given him/her.....or lack thereof.

Balance between right-finishing and left-finishing holes is one very important part of good course design. At the heart of good course design should be reward for players who can skillfully execute a wide variety of shots.....and punishment for those who can not.

 

[giles]

See I just can't get down with that "logic". I view courses individually on their merits. Played more than anyone else ever has, too. People can learn sidearm from 6 sidearm holes, it doesn't take 12. If they are naturally good at turnovers or sidearm how will they ever practice hyzering then?

Also, if they are all favoring lhbh or rhsa, then how will a left handed player ever learn to throw turnovers or sidearm? Which they will need at most other courses.

Just doesn't pass the logic test.

It's not a complaint just a critique. I can throw sidearm. I will need elbow surgery if I play there every day but I can throw it.

What you wrote is either gibberish or my comprehension sucks.

Towne Lake in McKinney is "lefty friendly" course. Short tee to A pin. Only 3 holes that are obvious hyzers. Not that the rest of the holes can't be reached with a hyzer, you have different lines open. The obvious lines are almost all straight or turnover shots.

 

[thepowerofpancakes]

Also, if they are all favoring lhbh or rhsa, then how will a left handed player ever learn to throw turnovers or sidearm? Which they will need at most other courses.
.

how will they ever learn turnovers or sidearms? you answered your own question - by playing other courses

you might have a valid argument if the course you were referring to was the only course that anyone in the area could play. i dont guess you are in the middle of nowhere are you?

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm with you, a course should be reasonably balanced. A balanced course favors the better player---one that has control of more different shots.

I suspect that most courses people label as biased, aren't. They just have a higher proportion of holes that are difficult for one hand or the other, and the complainers only have one hand, so to speak. I know on some courses where I've heard this complaint, when I listed the holes as righty/lefty they totalled up pretty evenly.

I know on my course, as it evolves, we try hard to keep it balanced.

 

[Innovadude]

More like 'jargon', since this is all I do all day it's how I speak. I puTT my trash in it's place.
2nd time around I did write down on paper as I played which holes did what.
It sort-of is the only course around for hundreds of locals, who basically refuse to make the half-hour trip to any other course, literally ever.

 

[Roc1Time]

What you wrote is either gibberish or my comprehension sucks.

Towne Lake in McKinney is "lefty friendly" course. Short tee to A pin. Only 3 holes that are obvious hyzers. Not that the rest of the holes can't be reached with a hyzer, you have different lines open. The obvious lines are almost all straight or turnover shots.

Well now Giles either your wrong or "blank" is wrong(read the reviews). Anyways, I feel the same about that course too, it is very friendly to both sides, but that isnt one of the strong points of the course IMO.

 

[CwAlbino]

This basically concerning the Black Locust course. Or course design in general. A lot of people have me confused for HATING it, I don't really hate it, in fact I think most (90%+) holes are well designed, but as a course as a whole it doesn't work together.

This is because it has a lefty vs. righty shot ratio of at least 2 to 1. Meaning it favors lhbh or rhsa shots twice as often or even more often than lhsa or rhbh shots.

Some recent reviewers seem to think this is OK, because 'every other course favors 'rhbh' shots more often'. That's fine for them to believe that if they want.
I don't think 2 wrongs (a lefty bias course to make up for other righty bias courses) make for a right.

Every course should be fairly balanced for all players, and for more shot variety and for practice.

Well I just wanted to throw that out there.

Based on your post, I'm guessing you do not have a good anhyzer or forehand shot, therefore calling it a LHBH only shot. There is no such thing as a RHBH only shot, same for LH. Use a roller, a tomahawk, a thumber, a forehand, a hyzer, an anhyzer; that is disc golf. If we only had to throw straight shots and hyzers all the time I would probably quit this game right now because that is boring. My example is this one:

Hole 17 at Red Oak in MN goes uphill, turns left, and then goes about 350 feet straight with trees in the way. Now most people would say this is a rhbh shot, they are wrong. I have thrown a rhbh on this, a rhfh, a thumber, and a roller. Biased throwers see one line, I look to the left and see above a small tree, a narrow opening for a rhfh shot. I took that shot last night and had the best first shot on that hole I've had for a while. The other was not even a backhand, it was a thumber to the right with an epic that faded left.


I really don't see why you are complaining over more right turns than left, seems to me you don't want a challenge.

 

[DavidSauls]

.....plus, it's more fun to have to throw both forehand & backhand, or to throw hyzers and anhyzers, during a round. A good balance of holes means a good balance of throws, no matter what your arsenal.

 

[thepowerofpancakes]

But....I do not believe the purpose of this site is to grade how well the designer maximized the potential of what was given him/her.....or lack thereof.

Balance between right-finishing and left-finishing holes is one very important part of good course design. At the heart of good course design should be reward for players who can skillfully execute a wide variety of shots.....and punishment for those who can not.

i agree mostly...but i just dont see the harm in making a lefty friendly course, there are so few that they seem to go up in value to me when i find a course like this that challenges me. just because most of the holes off the tee are lefty friendly doesnt mean that the course in general doesnt require a wide variety of shots. i would say any difficult course would have that despite the angle of the initial drive. I dont think having 9 hyzer drives and 9 anhyzer drives should be in the rule book of good course design. However using the land to maximum effect should be.

In my most humble opinion

 

[colodiscgolfer]

It sort-of is the only course around for hundreds of locals, who basically refuse to make the half-hour trip to any other course, literally ever.

Don't they still put the toboggan course up in the summer there, at the same site, and aren't cass benton in northville and independence lake a 10 minute drive away?

Gosh... things must have really changed since I lived out there.

 

[giles]

ok, that settles it, my comprehansion sucks today, I have no idea what I am reading or typing... I'm off.

 

[rikardob]

This is dumb.