Johnny Depth
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,598
Lose and loses, not loose or looses
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Lose and loses, not loose or looses
This is the truth. Disc golf went on a DIY path, bypassing parks and recreation to run its own events through local clubs. By doing that, you removed disc golf from anything a parks and recreation professional needed to know about. It is by design; we don't want the local parks and rec department to know how to compete with our local clubs. We want to control programming for ourselves. Because of the exclusion and because the courses are generating no income, there is no reason for a parks and recreation professional to take any sort of interest in disc golf. There is a huge knowledge gap about disc golf in the parks and recreation profession, but it is important to understand that we created and encourage that knowledge gap.
The knowledge gap allows parks departments to buy into the myth that disc golf is fine in multi-use areas and OK disc golf courses in spots that they should not. Again, that has so far worked in our favor as we have thousands of disc golf holes installed in places that no one with a proper parks and recreation risk management background and understanding of disc golf would allow. It has helped the game grow.
At the same time, it's a liability time bomb embedded in the foundation of our sport. If it would ever go off, the effects would be devastating. Nobody really likes to talk about it, because it would set disc golf back badly.
Is the bomb ticking? I have no idea. You know who would? I think a company who makes around 70% of the golf discs and a large % of the target baskets would know. A company like that would get named in a lawsuit or two, don't you think? If Innova started to seem concerned that the bomb was ticking, I'd pay attention.
I think I'm starting to get a man-crush on Three Putt.
Geez, I wish I had enough time to write all that's in my head, but I don't. but to hit the high points:
I'll stop at ten, but I could easily give you many more points, but work beckons.
I have been letting this digest all day. There have been rumors flying for months about how bad one new disc company hurt an old one by stabbing them directly in the heart and watching them bleed out. Said company would benefit greatly watching their new adversary that has MOSTLY big rim drivers go down and lose the type of money new start up companies can't afford to lose in redesign and marketing. Maybe dramatic but it's a pretty emotional situation in my opinion. I vote no change!
And also keep lobbying from manufacturers out of the professional organization or it will burn to the ground.... RIGHTFULLY!
Wow, definitely a lot of passion around the topic and a lot of reoccurring themes.
Most competitive sports reach a limit where the technology needs to be curbed for many different reasons. Has disc golf reached this limit? Maybe, maybe not, however we can probably agree it is close. There is no doubt that players have become accustomed to using their high speed drivers and are resistant to give them up. The game needs the elements of skill and show. "Drive for show, putt for dough." There will always be people that can strong arm a disc as opposed to using proper technique, just as there are people that rely heavily on overhand pancake or thumber shots, however in the long-run, players with a balanced game will likely win more often. There was a comment made previously around limiting the number of discs a player can carry during a tournament round. In golf, players are only allowed to carry 14 clubs during a round. Limiting the number of discs would definitely change the dynamic. Selection would be relevant to the course and the risk/reward of losing a disc could change one's strategy. Others mentioned how short courses are becoming obsolete by high speed drivers as many can bomb it over obstacles and get to the pin…well, we have the rarely enforced 2 meter rule. If the rules (even the unpopular ones) are observed it can maintain shorter courses competitiveness. It's probably best for the sport to review the current rules and tech standards to address and clearly establish any limitations sooner than later.
On that note, what does speed really mean? It would be nice if the PDGA would establish a standardized rating system for the different flight attributes. The arbitrary numbers between the manufacturers vary so much; it makes it hard to understand the characteristics. I have played a while and have a solid understanding, but I can appreciate how new players can be overwhelmed and confused causing them to make poor disc selections.
This leads into the topic of new players. I see many folks referring to new players in a derogatory way, i.e. "noobs" or "newbs" and how it is funny to watch them try to throw a high speed driver. Those who have learned to be successful at playing disc golf probably didn't do it on one's own. I am sure some friendly pointers and basic education from a seasoned player could help them choose a disc better suited to their abilities. This would result in more controlled driving and thus addressing a piece of the safety debate. There are far greater numbers of new players than elite players. The PDGA has 18K current members, 56K total members since 1976, and estimates that there are 500K regular players. In order to continue to grow this sport we collectively need to be stewards of the game to turn these experimenters into addicts like us.
I have some thoughts on the Innova conspiracy theories but I will hold them for another post.
Safety
It is hysteria of very few incidents that ended up banning lawn darts in the US.
Why is this even an issue?
And if anyone is just coming into this thread, you'd do yourself a disservice if you didn't follow this quote back to the full version (removed the meat of it b/c it's a bit on the long side). :clap:
I disagree, I found that post in particular full of bias in just about all 10 points. I disagreed with at least half of them as well. In particular the whole argument about sustainability and parks & rec courses vs private courses. If the sport is truly going to see growth it's going to have to be more private sector focused. If what you want in disc golf as a "sport" is the equivalent of a public playground, then sure... I don't see restricting an entire class of discs as a problem. However, if we're talking about disc golf as an actual sport with money behind it, then all these fair weather park goer's who are in "constant danger" shouldn't be on the course because the course would be exclusive to disc golf. I don't see how this isn't obvious...
I disagree, I found that post in particular full of bias in just about all 10 points. I disagreed with at least half of them as well. In particular the whole argument about sustainability and parks & rec courses vs private courses. If the sport is truly going to see growth it's going to have to be more private sector focused. If what you want in disc golf as a "sport" is the equivalent of a public playground, then sure... I don't see restricting an entire class of discs as a problem. However, if we're talking about disc golf as an actual sport with money behind it, then all these fair weather park goer's who are in "constant danger" shouldn't be on the course because the course would be exclusive to disc golf. I don't see how this isn't obvious...
Please figure out where this magical money is going to come from, then, because this sport has been around for years and is still struggling to find it.
Out here in California, land is either in short supply, or ridiculously expensive. Parks are one of our only options, so disc golf has to figure out a way to coexist.
Prediction: Some time in the next 2-3 years, the USDGC will be played with a disc restriction that limits the use of high speed and/or heavy weight drivers. Harold Duvall and Jonathon Poole (USDGC TDs and Innova guys) have lots of experience petitioning the PDGA Competition Director for rules waivers (e.g., the "BuncR" of a few years back), so the USDGC provides a great "test kitchen" environment.
For what it's worth, I'd be happy if they played the tournament with a restriction that no disc faster/sharper than a Roc/Buzz/Ghost/etc. could be used. I think it would still be extremely exciting to see Paul, Will, Double G., Avery, (insert your favorite bomber's name here), et. al., chuck their midranges 450-500+ feet around Winthrop Gold - which they CAN do.
Provide the big payout and the pros will follow.