Rules question

[Johnny Conservative]

Please excuse me if this has been covered.

I was playing a round the other day with some buddies. I was putting for a 3 and I hit the cage, the disc found its edge and rolled down a hill probably 175 feet. One of the guys in the group said that I could just take a penalty stroke and putt again from the same spot instead of throwing from where my disc rolled. Is this rule for real? I ended up missing the putt again and ended up with a 6, which is probably what I would have gotten if I threw from the bottom of the hill. So I think it was the same either way.

 

[zenbot]

The guy was correct.

803.02 Optional Relief and Optional Re-throw

A: Optional Relief. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie which is no closer to the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw shall be added to the player's score.

B: Optional Re-throw. A player may elect at any time to re-throw from the previous lie. The original throw plus one penalty throw shall be counted in the player's score.

 

[teemkey]

803.02 B

Optional Re-throw. A player may elect at any time to re-throw from the previous lie. The original throw plus one penalty throw shall be counted in the player's score.

 

[Johnny Conservative]

803.02 B

Thank you.

 

[JC17393]

Not trying to be snarky here, just educational.

The PDGA rules are available, for free, on the PDGA website at pdga.com/rules/. So if you ever have a situation where someone quotes you a rule that doesn't sound quite right to you, you can always look it up there.

Also never a bad idea to have a copy of the rules with you when you play (either the printed book or bookmarked or saved on your phone). This situation was one where the rule quoted was both true and potentially to your benefit, but sometimes people will try to misapply a rule or quote one that isn't true just to mess with you. Having the book on hand to prove or disprove a questionable rule can save everyone a lot of bother on the course.

 

[zenbot]

Not trying to be snarky here, just educational.

The PDGA rules are available, for free, on the PDGA website at pdga.com/rules/. So if you ever have a situation where someone quotes you a rule that doesn't sound quite right to you, you can always look it up there.

Also never a bad idea to have a copy of the rules with you when you play (either the printed book or bookmarked or saved on your phone). This situation was one where the rule quoted was both true and potentially to your benefit, but sometimes people will try to misapply a rule or quote one that isn't true just to mess with you. Having the book on hand to prove or disprove a questionable rule can save everyone a lot of bother on the course.

I have a copy in a ziplock bag. When people try to apply pretend rules I will hand it to them and ask them to find the rule in question.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Another rule I think is ridiculous :/ Takes away the "play it where it lies" mentality.

 

[zenbot]

Another rule I think is ridiculous :/ Takes away the "play it where it lies" mentality.

It's the same in bolf.

The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

 

[Jukeshoe]

Another rule I think is ridiculous :/ Takes away the "play it where it lies" mentality.

^This.

Can anyone explain the reasoning for this rule?

 

[Jukeshoe]

It's the same in bolf.

I'll be damned.

 

[krupicka]

The reasoning is fairly simple. If your disc goes OB, you can always play from the previous lie with a penalty stroke. So why should any other throw that does not go OB potentially be more punitive than an OB throw? If a disc is declared lost, you play from the previous lie with a penalty stroke. So why should a throw that isn't lost be more punitive than one that is declared lost but still found?

 

[Jay Dub]

^This.

Can anyone explain the reasoning for this rule?

Speed of play could be one reason. It also helps those who know the rules and penalizes players who do not know the rules. That makes it worth it to me.

 

[scarpfish]

Another rule I think is ridiculous :/ Takes away the "play it where it lies" mentality.

In all honesty, unless the disc rolls OB or into absolutely unforgiving crap, I'd just as soon play it where it lies. By taking the penalty you give up any chance of making it on the next shot. JC's example was a bit extreme, but suppose the disc had only rolled 50'-60'. Even when the comebacker is a long shot, it could go in.

Can anyone explain the reasoning for this rule?

Its the same rule that allows you to re-tee with a stroke from the tee pad (or any other previous lie) if your shot goes into deep jail. This particular application of it just happens to involve a matter where the progression of your lie goes backwards. It is largely the only situation where its a good deal to make use of it.

That and in a tournament situation, its a huge time saver.

 

[grodney]

I'm pretty sure old rulebooks called it "unplayable lie", similar to ball golf, with the thrower being the sole person determining whether it was "unplayable". The question came up a lot about integrity of the thrower and so forth, since it was left to judgment and/or definition of "unplayable". So they changed it to "optional re-throw".

 

[JC17393]

Speed of play could be one reason. It also helps those who know the rules and penalizes players who do not know the rules. That makes it worth it to me.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it "penalizes" the players (they just don't get the benefit the rule might provide) who aren't as rules knowledgeable, but I do agree with the general sentiment.

I always tell players that knowing the rules is as important a "weapon" in your bag of tricks as having a good sidearm or a good overhand or being able to throw a roller or turbo putt or any other type of shot. The more "weapons" at your disposal, the better player you can be.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The reasoning is fairly simple. If your disc goes OB, you can always play from the previous lie with a penalty stroke. So why should any other throw that does not go OB potentially be more punitive than an OB throw? If a disc is declared lost, you play from the previous lie with a penalty stroke. So why should a throw that isn't lost be more punitive than one that is declared lost but still found?

Speed of play could be one reason. It also helps those who know the rules and penalizes players who do not know the rules. That makes it worth it to me.

Both of these work for me. I see the point in the "play it where it lies mentality, but should the resulting lie be so horrendous as to be pretty likely to cost more than a penalty stroke, simply knowing the rule can benefit you.

 

[Jay Dub]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it "penalizes" the players (they just don't get the benefit the rule might provide) who aren't as rules knowledgeable, but I do agree with the general sentiment.

I always tell players that knowing the rules is as important a "weapon" in your bag of tricks as having a good sidearm or a good overhand or being able to throw a roller or turbo putt or any other type of shot. The more "weapons" at your disposal, the better player you can be.

If the player who does not know the rule goes into deep thicket and it takes two throws to get out, then I consider the second shot an extra penalty, or equal to it. If they do get out in one throw chances are they still are farther from the target than it they had re-teed.
That's why I think of it as a penalty even though it's self imposed.

 

[teemkey]

Both of these work for me. I see the point in the "play it where it lies mentality, but should the resulting lie be so horrendous as to be pretty likely to cost more than a penalty stroke, simply knowing the rule can benefit you.

Add to these the way a lost disc is treated in the rulebook. It's pretty consistent.

 

[zenbot]

I'll be damned.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Another rule I think is ridiculous :/ Takes away the "play it where it lies" mentality.

There are places on courses where people will not play from, but are not out of play. Without this rule, a player would have to DNF to not play from one of those spots. Say there's a fallen tree hung up that may fall near your lie at any time: there's not an obstacle or hazard to avoid, so the re-throw is the only way to play from a different spot.