Shift from Behind; Throw All Shots Better

[HyzerUniBomber]

Is this feeling what you guys are referring to when you are bracing, from behind?

Yes, and a agree very much with the FH feeling you describe.

 

[sidewinder22]

^ Yep, same as Hershyzer Drill starting at 3:25. Should be the same/similar feeling FH/BH, but need a more closed stance BH to allow your front arm to be levered on the backside. My FH has always had "the move" since I had a heavy pitching background, so I experimented with trying to mirror the feeling in BH. Initially I quickly realized my balance totally sucks trying to make the same pitching move off the left leg/foot and so the leverage was going to take some time learning how to make the same move basically lefty, feels like learning to write or throw with your non-dominate side. My balance and move is still better FH than BH, but it has caught up quite considerably over years of practice.

 

[DamonRipper]

I have been stuck around the 370-380' mark for quite a while, with an occasional 400' pop. This week, I had the good fortune to go play 18 holes at Veterans Park with Kevin Jones, as his doubles partner no less! Watching this guy crush was something to see: putters over 400, drives 550-600

But watching his form I could really see what this thread is about, all his power is coming from behind. He really emphasized the hip rotation in the x-step, and then just explodes the Hershyzer. I was experimenting with some of it while playing, and about the 14th hole it kind of kicked in, and I proceeded to smash 2 drives well over 400!

I think it will take a lot more field work and practice to stick, but I am hopeful this is the plateau-buster that I have been looking for. Going to re-watch some of the sidewinder videos again to reinforce this. I will probably try to post some video up for critique soon.

 

[slowplastic]

^That's awesome, I want to see putters go 400'. It's so much easier when you are with someone to see it in person, for the angles and pacing. So much better than trying to interpret video.

 

[DamonRipper]

^That's awesome, I want to see putters go 400'. It's so much easier when you are with someone to see it in person, for the angles and pacing. So much better than trying to interpret video.

I have seen this twice now, last year I saw Eagle throw some like that at the Piney Woods Open...

When we were done playing doubles, we went to hole #1 at Veterans and were just throwing drives for fun. It is a downhill shot of about 560-600' (not sure of the distance as I play there rarely). A bunch of us were throwing drivers and he threw a putter further than most of our drives. Just flat and floaty, hardly any left to right movement all the way to the ground ... crazy. Of course he threw a bunch of drivers and showed all kinds of lines, big anny flex lines, big hyzers. One anny he threw flexed out a little early and cleared the fence I would guess is about 500 - 550' out, cleared the road, and hit a U-haul truck on the opposite side IN THE AIR. Sick...

From what I could tell, his normal ranges would be a putter out to 350', mid 250-400, teebird-like Laseri 350-450, and driver out to 600 or so. The most impressive shots to me where the controlled mids and fairways hitting my driver distances ... such an advantage to throw a controllable disc that far. That really struck me in person, these guys aren't just cranking them but their power enables them to be accurate. Hole #7 is some 360', but uphill a good amount, would say it probably plays 390-400. He threw the Laseri and parked it, making it land just the right angle to sit by the basket.

 

[rhatton1]

It's 'cos he's throwing Jokeris - they'll add 100' to anyones putter throws

 

[DamonRipper]

It's 'cos he's throwing Jokeris - they'll add 100' to anyones putter throws

lol ... <begins ordering process>

 

[DamonRipper]

On the negative, I went and threw some yesterday, hoping to recapture that magic I glimpsed the other day. Although I threw well, I definitely wasn't in that zone I was the other day, back to normal. :wall:

I have a couple more questions for you gurus. The day I was really throwing, I sometimes would hit my throwing hand on my left foot on recoil after the throw. Kevin actually saw me do this on a rehearsal and said he sometimes does the same thing. You can see he almost does this in the video below. Is that a good thing? My feeling was it was the result of good brace and good follow-through, so probably was indication of some good things. Agree? Have any of you experienced this?

BTW, on this throw he put it 50 or 60' past both Koling and Wysocki, and Jerm was happy with his drive. Notice the odd foot action on his plant leg though. I would be interested to hear what SW, HUB, Slow, RHatton, etc. think about the mechanics of this particular throw.

 

[slowplastic]

^I'm interested as well. He has huge power and I was crazy impressed by his play in that tournament.

I don't know why some players' rear leg follow through direction is different at the brace point. Lots of players' rear leg extends very straight at the brace, think Wysocki with his straight leg/knee, but this is extremely common. McBeth's leg tends to have a more bent knee and slight upward movement of the heel. Others like Koling and Feldberg have a more bent rear knee and the foot moves upwards/around after countering the throw. Seems like Kevin Jones is a more extreme example of this foot path. I am going to guess they all counter the throw and it doesn't matter, it's a byproduct of balance, etc., but I don't know what causes it. I'm interested if there is an "ideal" here.

 

[sidewinder22]

I would say hitting your foot is typically a good indicator of bracing and countering, but maybe not the best balance and posture. It may not make a difference distance wise, but maybe accuracy and safety. I think about the rear foot driving my body/hand as far away from from my foot as possible, so they end up about 360 degrees separated which puts them right back over top each other in the finish. I tend to keep my posture more upright so the rear foot ends up kicking back down on the ground more like Wiggins, GG, Avery, and Ken Jarvis or a ball golfer finish - IMO this is ideal finish form. Kevin's form is very Wiggins-esque except Kevin doesn't seem to be as stable on the front foot and doesn't fully shift into the heel or pivot on it, and I think he ends up little over the top and putting more pressure on the ankle/knee.

 

[SuperWookie]

Haha yeah that's exactly why I made this thread...I felt stupid for not doing it right even though it was in all the videos too. So I figured others probably had the same issue. Glad it is working, that sounds like a good way to think about it (continuing to push with rear leg while reaching back).

Can you explain what you mean by "continuing to push with rear leg"? Do you mean, push the leg DOWN into your rear foot and ground? Do you mean, push your leg back, away from the target? What exactly do you mean here? I see lots of people talking about this great idea, but not quite sure I understand from the words being used to describe it. Thanks

 

[slowplastic]

Can you explain what you mean by "continuing to push with rear leg"? Do you mean, push the leg DOWN into your rear foot and ground? Do you mean, push your leg back, away from the target? What exactly do you mean here? I see lots of people talking about this great idea, but not quite sure I understand from the words being used to describe it. Thanks

I think the most standalone drills to feel this feeling are in the Door Frame Drill, as well as all the talk about the Hogan "power move". The Butt Wipe drill that SW has goes with this.

Using the rear foot's instep to push the rear leg and rear hip closer to the target. As in the left butt in a disc golf swing gets closer to the target being leveraged from the rear leg/instep.

It feels targetward, not up or down to me. And by turning the butt backwards yet getting closer to the target, the upper body is also turning away from the target at the same time so the backswing is being extended or helped.

So concentrating on not just the upper body to turn away from the target, but getting the lower body both closer to the target and turning away from the target more, yet simultaneously.

 

[Mocheez]

I think the most standalone drills to feel this feeling are in the Door Frame Drill, as well as all the talk about the Hogan "power move". The Butt Wipe drill that SW has goes with this.

Using the rear foot's instep to push the rear leg and rear hip closer to the target. As in the left butt in a disc golf swing gets closer to the target being leveraged from the rear leg/instep.

It feels targetward, not up or down to me. And by turning the butt backwards yet getting closer to the target, the upper body is also turning away from the target at the same time so the backswing is being extended or helped.

So concentrating on not just the upper body to turn away from the target, but getting the lower body both closer to the target and turning away from the target more, yet simultaneously.

To clarify, your momentum should be gliding over the left foot. So this push from the left instep doesn't add forward momentum but rather sets up the lower body to be in proper position for the forward swing, correct?

 

[slowplastic]

To clarify, your momentum should be gliding over the left foot. So this push from the left instep doesn't add forward momentum but rather sets up the lower body to be in proper position for the forward swing, correct?

Yes that's right...in a standstill throw I feel way more torque from the rear leg directing the hip like that, and it feels much more flowy in an X-step because your momentum is carrying your body down the teepad.

I should have used the word leverage from the rear leg perhaps, as it's not a sudden or impacting "push" feel at all.

 

[rhatton1]

I should have used the word leverage from the rear leg perhaps, as it's not a sudden or impacting "push" feel at all.

I used to say push. I wish I hadn't now, it gives the wrong idea to people. You're just trying to de - weight that back leg at the same time as moving the lower body targetwards. Instead of de weight and spinning round. Unfortunately that's a load of words without any real visual meaning to them. I've never either come up with or seen good wording for this move that makes sense to people. I'd like to hear some!

Conversely I suspect this is where BW's current stuff is going to lead people to miss this move as everything I read from him makes me think people are going to end up planting and spinning rather than plant, de-weight/shift, then rotate.....as a by product of the move.

 

[RandyC]

I used to say push. I wish I hadn't now, it gives the wrong idea to people. You're just trying to de - weight that back leg at the same time as moving the lower body targetwards. Instead of de weight and spinning round. Unfortunately that's a load of words without any real visual meaning to them. I've never either come up with or seen good wording for this move that makes sense to people. I'd like to hear some!

Conversely I suspect this is where BW's current stuff is going to lead people to miss this move as everything I read from him makes me think people are going to end up planting and spinning rather than plant, de-weight/shift, then rotate.....as a by product of the move.

I think this struggle is going on in every single sport. How to describe the "move", everyone explains it bit differently, yet all mean the same thing.

 

[slowplastic]

I think this struggle is going on in every single sport. How to describe the "move", everyone explains it bit differently, yet all mean the same thing.

Yeah, it just took me the first time to feel it with one throwing direction...then it was simpler to understand in BH/FH, putts, also baseball swings and every single sport like you said.

Whatever way it clicks for someone the first time, they can then apply it to every athletic motion if they really understand it.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

It is simply part of the weight shift. I think you want 90-100% of weight on front foot on release and pushing off is how you get there. Just make sure you shift your weight on to your front foot instead of past it (my biggest issue).

 

[sidewinder22]

I think this struggle is going on in every single sport. How to describe the "move", everyone explains it bit differently, yet all mean the same thing.

The struggle is real trying to explain the extremely dynamic motion of things in a relatable way to everyone. We all have our own "feels/perceptions that ain't always real" and that can often lead to a lot of confusion.

At least we hope it all means the same thing. Sometimes the intention gets lost or misunderstood and the byproducts are being taught.

 

[Calpolyarc]

also baseball swings

I've been reading this entire thread that started in 2017 waiting to see if someone would compare the weight shift to a baseball swing. In regards to just the 'feeling' of the lower body weight shift from rear side to front side, do you guys feel like it's an accurate comparison?