Shift from Behind; Throw All Shots Better

[slowplastic]

Really, all shots...backhand, forehand, putts. This has been a huge revelation in my game, and it has taken me way too long to understand even though people like Sidewinder22 have been showing it so properly through so many drills. I just didn't see it the right way for too long. It shows up again and again, but if you don't shift your weight right, "from behind", you aren't really shifting your weight at all. If you don't know what means then hopefully this can help a few people get started.

Different things click for different people so I'll try a few different illustrations. There are a few threads on this (and tons of drills). For example here: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948

I posted some ideas in another thread but they are likely hard to find for most people, so I thought it'd be worth re-posting some things here in one place, along with a few more ideas.

But basically, if you feel how to shift your weight "from behind" it lets you set up the brace correctly and feel a strong connection through your body and to the disc (I feel this most clearly in forehands so far). This works in backhand, forehand, and putts. Here is a partial re-post of my explanation:

So the part that really clicked for me starts at 3:25 of this video. Focus on how he says the weight is on the inside of rear foot, where the tension in the leg is, how you can reach back while feeling that pressure/tension. Feeling how pushing with the rear leg helped me reach back in the same motion was when it really made sense.



This is how it feels in a throw...you are balanced over your feet but you drive your rear hip/left butt towards the target (the arrow is meant to be parallel to the ground) while the right arm is turning back. Don't focus on rotation forward, don't focus on shifting quickly, just push that left butt towards the target. When your right arm goes back it's pretty equal/opposite and you should be in great balance.

I then feel like I drive off my left instep in that direction and once my front foot is planted everything still rotates easily, but it automatically delays the reachback because the motion goes hand in hand with how you are turning your hips and the direction you are shifting your weight.

The important thing is do NOT think "walk backwards" or "face target with butt". It's the last step that you should feel this load on your left instep, feel the left thigh engage, and turn back to allow for this shift underneath/behind towards the target on line. The door frame drill helps you turn at the right time and feel how the reachback and shift are opposite and at the same time.

Here's another image, I really feel like it's loading off your left instep straight at the target (which is behind the front foot), and directing your left butt/hip straight at the target. The upper arrow is meant to be his left butt (view blocked because of angle), not his right hip.

In the Turbo Encabulator video you can see how SW22 embellishes the spine angle with a pool cue, which is supported by his plant leg at the shift and angled backward while tilted athletically over the toes. Video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0

 

[slowplastic]

You can see in this picture how a baseball pitcher is shifting the same way; imagine this applying to a forehand. Video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKvJY6gDfg

Here is Wysocki in a forehand, doing the same shift. He isn't driving the right hip forward, he's shifting from behind and it feels like anchoring your weight to leverage the disc. For me, I could really feel this motion when swinging a hammer. When you leverage your weight correctly the hammer feels linked through your body/arm.

Even in putts this happens. Before I thought the rear leg was for pushing forward then acting as a counterweight. If you look at top putters, the rear hip moves behind the front hip, driving forward. I've added 10' to my putting range, not that I'm a great putter...but it works.

 

[AzteC]

I think this subject clicked for me recently, but not in thinking about it directly. It basically came from me approaching the tee pad further on the right side when throwing a straight power shot. It felt like I had my back exposed to the target for longer. After applying this for only a couple of weeks, I feel confident and consistent in hyzer flipping something hard and far while doing this. MY challenge now is applying this when I approach from the left side of the tee pad when trying to throw general hyzers. ESPECIALLY spike hyzers.

 

[deyo7]

SlowP, this was such a helpful discovery for me - good work detailing this all out.

Here a couple examples (of probably many) where SW explains pretty darn clearly I just never got it for some reason until I was mentally struggling through it all:

First part of Crush can 2.1:


Sidewinder talks about foot eversion, which is necessary to "get" the from behind principle (it's necessary in order to rotate your hip laterally toward the target): he talks about it in gas pedal drill among other places (door frame, etc.)

Hershyzer Drill also a critical component in understanding - When rotate laterally from behind result is leading with your butt and not rotating early which I was doing previously.



Also watching Clement explain the power move was helpful to me.



It is very interesting how this translates to other sports. I got to my son's soccer game early on Saturday and we were warming up on the field and I was applying the from behind principle to my soccer shots. It's essentially the same thing as a forehand shot in disc golf. I would laterally rotate my right check toward the target before the hit and man I was getting some sweet rips. Soccer shot is already ingrained for me but just thinking about the from behind principle and consciously doing it made it so easy and replicable. The nets were scared and the 6 yr olds were blown away

Anyway, hope these videos help supplement and click for someone else too.

 

[slowplastic]

Here a couple examples (of probably many) where SW explains pretty darn clearly I just never got it for some reason until I was mentally struggling through it all:

Exactly...once it clicks it's so obvious that it was in everything all along. Frustrating to not get it. Nothing in here is really meant to be new, just a lot of little snippets together so hopefully different things let more people see it, and then they can dive deeper and apply it to all shots (and sports, as you have found out too).

Here's another one...for forehand shots, watch this video at ~2:20. Shows how to get into that tilted/shifted position and leverage the hammer or disc on a forehand hyzer. If you do this with a hammer you'll really feel the leverage through your body when you do it correctly, and then you can translate it to a throw with a disc. It really makes forehand shots feel effortless if you already can snap cleanly.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

 

[Jimbat]

This really made a lot of sense to me. I just got out and tried it during my lunch break, very rudimentarily, and had a couple putters go 280'-290' and one or two Mako shots go 310'-320' dead straight.

The idea of left butt foward initiating the wide backswing really got things moving, and the hip clearing without forcing it!

Thanks Slowplastic!

 

[slowplastic]

Awesome! I'm still at the point of nice easy shots with it and getting those clean putters/mids out there too...but I'm seeing very significant power increase with forehands and with low strain.

 

[jed.only]

I'm going to go over this again in the AM and let it marinate. I'll give it a go tomorrow at lunch.

 

[rhatton1]

It is very interesting how this translates to other sports. I got to my son's soccer game early on Saturday and we were warming up on the field and I was applying the from behind principle to my soccer shots. It's essentially the same thing as a forehand shot in disc golf.
.

This is how I taught myself a forehand way back in the day, actually started off by kicking through at the same time as driving to get the feel of the lower body movement. Still something I use over here quite a lot as most UK players have played soccer growing up so easily relatable.

 

[deyo7]

This is how I taught myself a forehand way back in the day, actually started off by kicking through at the same time as driving to get the feel of the lower body movement. Still something I use over here quite a lot as most UK players have played soccer growing up so easily relatable.

That's great! Though I'm surprised to see you use the word "soccer" - isn't that taboo? Shouldn't it be futbol or footy?!?

 

[axion]

"I then feel like I drive off my left instep in that direction and once my front foot is planted everything still rotates easily, "

This is one of the issues I have. I feel like I have nothing left to drive with since I expelled all my energy attempting to get my left butt moving towards the target. I can feel it on the 1 leg drill, I feel it doing a step into the shot, I can not feel it when x stepping.

 

[deyo7]

"I then feel like I drive off my left instep in that direction and once my front foot is planted everything still rotates easily, "

This is one of the issues I have. I feel like I have nothing left to drive with since I expelled all my energy attempting to get my left butt moving towards the target. I can feel it on the 1 leg drill, I feel it doing a step into the shot, I can not feel it when x stepping.

Hmmm. Try to evert your left foot so that you load tension in your left cheek (as it moves laterally toward target), then grab the door frame with right toe planted for balance but weight on inside of rear foot. Drop into it with your left cheek and just hang there and feel what happens as you play around with pushing into ground with you inside of rear foot. Just hang there and feel that tension as you move it about. When you let go of the door frame your body should be able to do nothing but rotate. Does that make sense? Does that help at all change feeling or do you already feel that since only not able to reproduce in x step?

If the latter, maybe try to make sure you move slow enough so that you can remain balanced on left foot enough to properly evert foot and load the hip prior to dropping into it?


Hope that helps

 

[deyo7]

To add to it, I don't think it should feel like you are expending energy to get left butt moving toward target. It's more like loading the tension to create torque

 

[slowplastic]

This is one of the issues I have. I feel like I have nothing left to drive with since I expelled all my energy attempting to get my left butt moving towards the target. I can feel it on the 1 leg drill, I feel it doing a step into the shot, I can not feel it when x stepping.

I agree with what deyo7 said. You should be turning/loading as you are striding and feel the momentum direction carry you down the line to the target underneath/behind you.

If you can feel it with the 1 step type of shot then I also suspect that you are coming into the X-step with too much speed so you are having to push quickly or "catch up" to your body speed, rather than being able to turn into your load like you would in a standstill or 1-step. Go as slow as you need to in order for it to feel right.

 

[axion]

Ya, I feel it until I move through an x step. Its def. Not a speed issue since I walk my x step. I've just started walking into the 1 leg drill if that makes sense. I top out with a teebird at 350, and a valk at 400'

I'll keep playing with it, but it hasn't 'clicked' in the last year of working on it, so I'm not holding out to much hope

 

[sidewinder22]

You are naturally going to feel less load in the rear leg with an x-step/forward momentum. You need more rhythm to feel it with x-step or more hop like dance move to change your acceleration. Takes lots and lots of practice.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Translation to xstep really is a pain in the behind.

The concept that helped me the most with the xstep is the "brace for impact" idea with the visualization that I have a peg leg plant foot that needs to slot into a hole in the ground that is on my axis of rotation. Pretty sure sw has the video somewhere... but bracing for impact tightens the core up at just the right time.

Re: shifting/pushing: Another way to think of it, if you are getting on a skateboard and taking your first push from a dead stop, you have to push with more involved to get going.

If you take a few steps to get your Momentum going, you just hop on the board in the right stance without having to do the push.

It's a bit unfortunate that learning the proper mechanics from a 1-step don't translate very seamlessly to an xstep.

 

[josephreese]

The concept that helped me the most with the xstep is the "brace for impact" idea with the visualization that I have a peg leg plant foot that needs to slot into a hole in the ground that is on my axis of rotation.

Watching my son pole vault this track season reminded me about how poorly I brace. A proper vault relies so much on the energy and angles delivered into the plant, and when it's done right it's pretty amazing. The physics in motion, the changing angles, the transference of weight, all timed just right... beautiful.

Sometimes I see in my mind so clearly what it takes to properly brace, but I've yet to truly feel it. I think I'm ready to start over, and build from a standstill. I'll likely beg this community for help along the way, lol.

 

[deyo7]

I want to expound on all of this and particularly the completion of the move/ unloading portion because really if that's not done properly I feel like the loading/"from behind" portion is almost all for naught. And because there's got to be some other analytical dger like myself that needs things broken down for them like a kindergartner before it all clicks. I'm finally getting it (my body is still catching up to my brain but it's never been easier to throw far - it's almost like disc golf)

So first, what the "from behind" thing does for me: 1) loads tension 2) Gets me in proper position... to lead with my butt so that I don't rotate forward prematurely (see above comments and hershyzer wall drill) & into what I'll call doorframe position to uncork if you will (see above comments on how to get that feel while doing doorframe drill -- or just do the doorframe drill ).

*Now pause here: The result of this is that if the above are done correctly it creates momentum going "targetward" and in my mind through your center of gravity. This is key for me and the X factor. In order to achieve this: When you unload and are pushing off with rear leg, make sure that your foot/leg are oriented properly so that momentum is going, I'll just say, into the front leg with weight of that driving behind your body (as opposed to having left/rear leg swinging out and around).

Here is what I'm talking about: @3:25 in Hershyzer drill



Do you feel that feeling when pushing off the wall where if you lift off rear foot it goes behind? That's the feeling I'm talking about. Striding targetward with this in mind as you evert foot and drop down into door frame position has been a game changer.

See also one leg drill at 530ish but with particular attention to 6:00-730



Look at these drives and notice where their rear leg is going:



Same thing goes for FH. I now understand how/why SW gets his right leg behind him in FH throws.

Oh and bringing left arm in DOES help in getting rear hip forward and on that line.

SO that is what I mean by completing/unloading the from behind move. I wasn't able to get in position to do this until I understood "from behind" as well as door frame drill... and also the above linked vids, hah! I know that this is not likely new for a lot of you and I'm not trying to patronize anyone - just sharing what I didn't understand (dummy) & hoping that what clicked for me recently helps someone else.