WHY WORLDS

[@iDiscGolf]

Isnt that more impressive?

 

[Finny]

Emac.

I poked around on the PDGA website a couple of months ago and was very surprised by how few big wins he had prior to taking Worlds. And since, honestly. It was a far more regional game even 7 years ago, but he seems to be the least accomplished player, in terms of tournament victories, to have taken Worlds.

However, you can't take that title away, and he's made great use of it to #growthesport.

 

[AndyJB]

I do find it a little bizarre that not only is the USDGC the season ended rather than Worlds, but also that USDGC has generally had more international players than Worlds.

Hey, keep disc golf weird. We also seem to be the only sport where we all high five before the round is over (before teeing off on 18.) If I didnt want to be playing a quirky game Id go play pick-up basketball 5 to 6 times a week.

 

[sjberry2017]

Another factor, historical, traditional, and financial, has been that Worlds have been a hybrid of World Championship and Convention. Separating out Open divisions for the first time this year, eases that just a bit. But still, we've tried to include as many people as possible.

In part, because we need the entry fees.

But this means we need to give these mobs of people a long time to plan their work schedules, vacations, etc. Unlike professional spectator sports, only a handful are full-time disc golfers, able to alter their life for a playout or championship. My understanding is that this is why the PDGA went to the annual points system, where points won in 2016 qualify for 2017 Worlds.

If we ever reached the point where we can hold a very small-field Worlds, with entry coveted and fought for, it'll be easier to place it at the end of the year.

*

You could view this World Championship as really a late event for 2016, since that's when the qualifiers were. Instead of mid-season, it's sort of a championship that's held in the middle of the next season. Which is odd, too.

^I agree with all of the above^

However

If we ever reached the point where we can hold a very small-field Worlds, with entry coveted and fought for, it'll be easier to place it at the end of the year.

So basically the USDGC?

I'm going to continue to argue that the USDGC is basically our actual World Championships. There are qualifications throughout the disc golf season, with a play-in opportunity right before the tournament, so it ticks the box for being a more exclusive and limited entry. It also has typically has drawn a more worldwide crowd than actual Worlds (as folks have mentioned over and over again, this is probably due to it being one course, at basically the same time every year, and therefore an easier tournament to plan for. Plus there's a hub airport literally right there in Charlotte). There is also a decent amount of $$ up for grabs thanks to Innova every year.

 

[Cgkdisc]

USDGC with no Women's division.

 

[DavidSauls]

So basically the USDGC?

I'm going to continue to argue that the USDGC is basically our actual World Championships. There are qualifications throughout the disc golf season, with a play-in opportunity right before the tournament, so it ticks the box for being a more exclusive and limited entry. It also has typically has drawn a more worldwide crowd than actual Worlds (as folks have mentioned over and over again, this is probably due to it being one course, at basically the same time every year, and therefore an easier tournament to plan for. Plus there's a hub airport literally right there in Charlotte). There is also a decent amount of $$ up for grabs thanks to Innova every year.

At the very least, the USDGC is what the Worlds might be, if we started from scratch to design a tournament system. Except I doubt it would be at the same place every year.

But I was actually thinking of something with a very limited field---say, 36 players. Which is probably only feasible in the dreamland where we become a spectator sport, and there is media and sponsorship money. With a small field like that, everyone would be at least enough of a dark horse that they'd be playing to win, not to be there, and whatever qualifier season you had would have real meaning for a lot of people.

Maybe, a field of 16, and a championship showdown.

In the meantime, the USDGC is really our Masters.

(I'll mention again that the DGPT is trying to push in this direction, too).

 

[DavidSauls]

For what's it's worth, sports vastly bigger than disc golf have their own bizarre traditions, though not necessarily involving their championships. In most sports, I can think of things that, if they were starting from scratch, they'd never do the way they're doing them now.

 

[DavidSauls]

Hey, keep disc golf weird. We also seem to be the only sport where we all high five before the round is over (before teeing off on 18.) If I didnt want to be playing a quirky game Id go play pick-up basketball 5 to 6 times a week.

All sports are quirky. We're just obsessed about this particular one.

 

[discgolfer25]

If I were to start from scratch this is what I would do:

Take 50 winners from 50 official State Championships (February-July)
US Championships with a field of 50 State Championship winners. (August)
Top 27 qualify for Worlds

23 National Championships in other countries (All countries that have a PDGA event on the calander this year) if the country is big enough to have area championships, like our State championships, to qualify for their national championship, they could do that as well.

UK
Canada
Estonia
Sweeden
Finland
Australia
Japan
Austria
Denmark
Norway
Iceland
Czech Republic
Germany
Netherlands
Norway
New Zealand
Hungary
Slovenia
Spain
Belgium
Croatia
Poland
Latvia

50 People who qualified play for Worlds in October.

I know that you're taking away some of the best players by only allowing 27 US players but this would make it a true "Worlds" and a process to actually be crowned the World Champion

 

[scarpfish]

If I were to start from scratch this is what I would do:

Take 50 winners from 50 official State Championships (February-July)

You lost me here on the basis that some of those state championships would be way harder competition than others due to unequal population. The tenth best player in one state might be better than the best one in another.

 

[discgolfer25]

You lost me here on the basis that some of those state championships would be way harder competition than others due to unequal population. The tenth best player in one state might be better than the best one in another.

Anyone can play though. Paul loses the Cali States to Bobby, try Arkansas. It would give people incentive to play in them or if you want to keep it residents only, give out more bids to States with more 1000 rated players.

 

[JoakimBL]

There is, in my opinion, nothing weird about holding worlds in the summer. I think maybe you look at it with US centric view, because a lot of mainly US sports call their winner the world champions ,even though, when it comes down to it, NFL, NBA and NHL etc. are literally companies, where you have to buy into the league to play, and is primarily US based. There is a world championship in Basketball, that has absolutely nothing to do with the NBA, and are held with national teams (diregarding the diference between team and individual sports) Soccers Word Cup is held in the summer, even though it is held every 4 years and is the final of a 2 year schedule of prelimenary rounds.
The main weird thing about Worlds is that is always held in the US. No other "real" sport has that I think. (And by real I mean something that is not a privately owned company, but world wide athletic organisations)

The OP's POW is in my opinion based on ignorance (and I don't mean that condescendingly) Ignorance on how things are generally handled outside the US, and ignorance on what is generally considered a World Champion. a World Champion isn't necessarily the best in the worlds best, but the winner of a championship amongst the worlds best.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Especially with the new 2 course/4 round format, I can see the argument that Worlds is now just like a lot of other tournaments.

Still doesn't feel like it's a true World Championships with a 4-round format.
10 rounds to 8 rounds to 6 rounds, now to 4 rounds.
I understand all the reasons used to justify the 4-round format, but it just doesn't seem like the legitimate Worlds when it just like every other C-tier weekend 2-day tourney.

 

[_MTL_]

Even EMAC wasn't that large of an upset. No one outside of the top 20 worlds rankings has ever won the worlds. EMAC is the lowest - not sure of his rankings but it was low - mid teens.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Even EMAC wasn't that large of an upset. No one outside of the top 20 worlds rankings has ever won the worlds. EMAC is the lowest - not sure of his rankings but it was low - mid teens.

EMac 13th ranked in that field. Nate Doss was 9th in 2005 and Avery Jenkins 8th in 2009. Hard to know if any winner in the 80s prior to Climo's win streak might have had a lower initial ranking.

For women "dark horses", Des Reading in 2002 and Paige Pierce in 2011 were both ranked 6th and won.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I'm not going to do the necessary research to back-up this claim, but golf is how golf is with the majors because many of those events existed before a "tour" existed. I could be wrong.

There seems to be a lot of random defining of "world champion" in this thread based on very subjective ideas of what a world champion is. As others have said, almost all major and minor sports in the United States don't hold a world championship. They are season and/or tour structured with a playoff system. So the champs are season-based champs. Golf majors are majors but they are also part of the tour but are not world championships.

I would argue that a true world championship would be detached from tour/season structures. The idea of a world championship is that it has the gravitas to stand on its own without a supporting season/tour structure.

Disc golf has a quirky history, so we have what we have. As I posted in the other thread, any loss of prestige around the WC is due to a large degree to improvement in quality of other tournaments.

 

[_MTL_]

Sponsors have made the world championship the elite event based on bonuses and signature events.

If a sponsor wanted to do the same for some random B tier, the players would flock to that event.

 

[WildlyMediocre]

But I was actually thinking of something with a very limited field---say, 36 players. Which is probably only feasible in the dreamland where we become a spectator sport, and there is media and sponsorship money. With a small field like that, everyone would be at least enough of a dark horse that they'd be playing to win, not to be there, and whatever qualifier season you had would have real meaning for a lot of people.

Sponsors have made the world championship the elite event based on bonuses and signature events.

If a sponsor wanted to do the same for some random B tier, the players would flock to that event.

One other thing that's being missed in relation to our sport and professional sporting events is that you have to pay a premium to be a spectator. Our galleries are players done with their rounds, friends, family, locals who want to check it out, etc.

If an event became a destination and charged for entry, that makes sustaining a smaller field more feasible. Now, what would it take to talk people into paying to watch Disc Golf in person as opposed to just waiting for YouTube round coverage? Well, that's a pretty interesting mental exercise.

Player's packs for spectators? Pre-event events like best-shot doubles rounds for prizes? Chances to play with the pros? Would you travel to Smuggler's Notch and pay $200 for entry if it got you a 2018 Worlds Innova bag, some other cool stuff, and a chance to be a doubles partner with Ricky Wysocki?

But, if (and that's a big IF) they did find a way to get that kind of money from hundreds of spectators as opposed to all the time and money and effort it takes to manage a player field that big....man that opens a lot of options for pro payouts, event format, etc.

 

[Finny]

Would you travel to Smuggler's Notch and pay $200 for entry if it got you a 2018 Worlds Innova bag, some other cool stuff, and a chance to be a doubles partner with Ricky Wysocki?

Oh hell yes. And so would a lot of people. Look at how many "chumps" paid for the opportunity to throw ONE SHOT with McBeth.

 

[DavidSauls]

One other thing that's being missed in relation to our sport and professional sporting events is that you have to pay a premium to be a spectator. Our galleries are players done with their rounds, friends, family, locals who want to check it out, etc.

If an event became a destination and charged for entry, that makes sustaining a smaller field more feasible. Now, what would it take to talk people into paying to watch Disc Golf in person as opposed to just waiting for YouTube round coverage? Well, that's a pretty interesting mental exercise.

Player's packs for spectators? Pre-event events like best-shot doubles rounds for prizes? Chances to play with the pros? Would you travel to Smuggler's Notch and pay $200 for entry if it got you a 2018 Worlds Innova bag, some other cool stuff, and a chance to be a doubles partner with Ricky Wysocki?

But, if (and that's a big IF) they did find a way to get that kind of money from hundreds of spectators as opposed to all the time and money and effort it takes to manage a player field that big....man that opens a lot of options for pro payouts, event format, etc.

I described it as "...the dreamland where we become a spectator sport...", because there's little evidence that people want to watch disc golf, in anything like sufficient numbers to support it. Lots of people have put a lot of effort into trying. (I'm of the school of thought that disc golf isn't inherently interesting to watch, and will never draw more than a tiny following, in person or online).

If anyone ever cracks than nut and proves me wrong, it will of course be a game-changer: with spectator and sponsor dollars, we could do a lot of things differently. Including having more command over how and when and where the championships are held.