When can you change par?

[Stardoggy]

Who cares. It's just an imaginary standard that means nothing.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Just as there is no such thing as universal par, there is no such thing as a birdie/bogey etc. If a little digit on a sign can make you feel bad about your play, you're doing it wrong.

I'm mapping holes and making tee signs for a new course right now. There are no pars.

I think either do this, or use valid stat models to base par on the 'average' pro. The problem with a model based system is that it must be updated when either the players or the equipment changes.

Not having par means that Stableford scoring can never be used. Of course, I have never seen Stableford used in dg, so that probably doesnt matter.

Both of the above only matter if the course is going to be hosting A teirs or better, otherwise, just make up a number, any number, and play it.

 

[Turnipseed]

Both of the above only matter if the course is going to be hosting A teirs or better, otherwise, just make up a number, any number, and play it.

Or don't make up a number. Just play it.

 

[philstine]

Well first you have to argue about it on DGCR for a couple of days.

And then Steve West will make a graph.

We are already halfway there apparently.

What are the other two steps?

 

[philstine]

Both of the above only matter if the course is going to be hosting A teirs or better, otherwise, just make up a number, any number, and play it.

Par is whatever I shoot on a hole that day plus 2. Unless I ace. Then it's plus three. Those 100-150' par fours can be a real b!tch.

 

[takman]

I came here to chew bubblegum and write reviews. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Never start a sentence with 'And'. Bring up the par issue at a club meeting and state your case.

 

[blake833]

barring being severely uphill or having severe doglegs (in which case par 4 is possible) more likely bad holes than anything else.

oh yea. that goes for several of the holes. There is no elevation change at all in the whole park, and even then I wouldn't really say there's a dog-leg on these holes as much as "there are fewer trees through this way."

One day out there with a chainsaw could fix almost all of these problems, but I doubt the park would allow that. They actually just planted more trees (not in areas that affect the dg course, thankfully).

The weird part is the holes that are frustratingly wooded with no real clear fairways, or wide open holes with no real obstacles, and about 3 holes that are somewhere in between. It's not the best designed course. (The Pines DGC, in Mandeville, LA if you want to look it up. Pars have already been adjusted, but looking at the gold tees only 3 and 18 were par 4s originally, and the advanced stats refer to the old pars, but the avg score per hole wouldn't change)

 

[blake833]

:wall:

So, par is now 3? (Yes, it makes a difference.)

Par is a three. That's 18 scoring 3, a par, and 117 scoring 4 or higher.

 

[Motorpro]

You can change the par when you own the course

 

[MikeK]

You're pretty bad at disc golf Blake, let's be honest. There's a birdieable fairway on all the wooded holes out there. Just because the course isn't a gimme and you want to feel better about your game by changing the pars, doesn't mean it's a poor design. Further, there aren't any pros recording their scores out there, so your stats are skewed to what 850-900 rated players record for their scores out there.

 

[Steve West]

:wall:

Par is a three. That's 18 scoring 3, a par, and 117 scoring 4 or higher.

For that hole, for the group of players in the set, that would be a par 4.

However, the tees are labelled Blue and Gold and those colors have a standardized meaning.

Blue means for Advanced players, and Gold means for highly skilled Pros. So, the pars that are assigned to those tees should be based on those kinds of players.

All the Blue tees being set to par 3 looks right. For Gold, only the 609 foot hole might be a par 4, but all 3s is probably better.

For the pars you calculated for the Gold Tees, the appropriate color-coded skill level is White (Intermediate). I'd suggest adding a column where you copy the Gold tee lengths, call them the White tees and use your pars for the White tees.

 

[Karl]

For that hole, for the group of players in the set, that would be a par 4.

However, the tees are labelled Blue and Gold and those colors have a standardized meaning.

Blue means for Advanced players, and Gold means for highly skilled Pros. So, the pars that are assigned to those tees should be based on those kinds of players.

All the Blue tees being set to par 3 looks right. For Gold, only the 609 foot hole might be a par 4, but all 3s is probably better.

For the pars you calculated for the Gold Tees, the appropriate color-coded skill level is White (Intermediate). I'd suggest adding a column where you copy the Gold tee lengths, call them the White tees and use your pars for the White tees.

Mauve tees, vermillion tees, puce tees, prissy tees...oh sorry, prissy isn't a color...but it is what par is if it isn't for the best players in the world. Coddling the masses - gotta love it. :|

 

[Cgkdisc]

Mauve tees, vermillion tees, puce tees, prissy tees...oh sorry, prissy isn't a color...but it is what par is if it isn't for the best players in the world. Coddling the masses - gotta love it. :|

Just like ball golf, yep.

 

[sisyphus]

Been following this thread only to finally realize, wait, I've BEEN there!

Folks note there is one set of tees and "Blue" or "Gold" basket positions. There's no elevation change there to influence the 'length' of the holes, and sorry O.P., but the park like, mature trees aren't terribly tight, except for the fact that they're going to force a particular choice of lines of flight. Yes, you can get a bad kick occasionally, but Pro rated players won't find too much challenge.

Blake, I feel for you, having been there in my second year of disc golf, and being daunted by the baskets being in the long positions (I'd been hoping the blue & gold meant tees & I could enjoy the 'short' layout). I was probably only playing about a Novice level (under 850 rating) at the time and couldn't reach 300' holes, but I took six 3's & three 4's on the front nine, before I had to leave. The back nine has a few more trees, but a Novice to Rec player should still shoot half 3's & half 4's on that 'gold' layout.

Now, having played with some real talented folks, including a three time world champ from WV, you should know that those guys would probably shoot half 2's & half 3's all day long at the Pines.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

When you answer the question, "what is par?"

 

[DanJon]

What are the other two steps?

3. ?
4. Profit

 

[Karl]

Just like ball golf, yep.

Somehow I just knew you were going to show up RIGHT after I posted.

 

[JRW III]

My home course of Oak Meadow Park was originally set up with the "all holes par 3" concept. When we installed new tee signs several years ago, we reset the par. The main tees are the white tees. Four holes moved from par 3 to par 4. One of the holes was 414 ft with foliage. The other three were mostly open with distances of 521, 537, and 654 ft. We used the PDGA par guidelines to establish the par reset (https://www.pdga.com/files/par_guidelines_may_2017.pdf).

There is still one more hole out there that I think you could make an argument to change to par 4. It is only 388 ft, the the dogleg makes extremely difficult to get a 2 and the scoring average could support a par 4.

 

[NegaSnapples]

Started this thread expecting the outcome to be that OP is just bad.

Was not disappointed.

 

[ohtobediscing]

So many hurt feelings and deflated egos. Take a page from toddler soccer and eliminate scorekeeping.!