Form Check

[Bradley Walker]

Ok, I am going to try to address something I see you and SW22 talking about. SW22 likes the Greg Norman "foot slide" in the golf swing and I agree, it really is misunderstood how good it is. I am going to attach a video here where Mike Austin explains the secret I think you guys are looking for... The mistake that people make is thinking that the lead hip in a golf swing (and disc golf backhand) turns out of the way. As a result you see the lead hip collapse inward. As in the case of yourself. But it doesn't. As correctly explained by SW22 the lead hip simply "compresses" and the trainling hip rotates AROUND THAT.

GG is not "opening his hip" he is rotating his trailing hip around a nearly fixed lead hip. He launches himself into the air lands on his bent front leg and then sends his trailing knee IN FRONT of the other knee. The lead hip is the POST the trailing side revolves around.

SW22 is correct. Here is Mike Austin explaining moving the trailing leg up to the "front rail". Skip to 5:00 and watch.



BTW, relearning this method of "rotating without rotating" saved my golf career. If you watch my golf swing my trailing knee simply folds in front of the plant knee which is soft and bowed toward the target. Same a Jack Nicklaus, Norman, Miller, etc etc

 

[Bradley Walker]

Which is why I say you slap the midget with your left ass cheek.... I should probably say "knee the midget in the balls".

This is also why the best disc golfer forms get their trailing foot in the air almost immediately. Mike Austin taught getting the back foot heel off the ground as quickly as possible. Mike hit his 500 yard PGA drive at 60 years old. And these modern pros are teaching keeping your feet on the ground. They are stupid.

 

[Bradley Walker]

In this frame your trailing knee is turned INSIDE your lead hip. Your point of rotation is not a point maybe even past your lead foot a bit it is a foot behind it. Your rear foot is screwing itself into the ground.

This is the classic Mike Austin internal rotation addressed in that video. Could be a simple as learning to start your trailing knee more OUTWARD toward the disc instead of spinning it inward. You ass will follow your knee. I used to use clubs laid in an x in front of my feet to make a visual of the bend angles until I learned to work my knees outward at 30 to 45 degree angles.

Watch the trailing leg. Watch his raise his back foot and his entire right leg goes around his left leg and the left leg never really moves and the angles of the lead leg are soft and "squatted"

 

[rhatton1]

I am still waiting to see if all those videos get taken down because it teaches the grip being sideways. Which is wrong.

Kind of like turning your grip over 90 degrees on a golf club and chopping down it is not a golf swing.

The way i use the claw hammer is totally analogous to my grip and swing (just got up and tested it with disc gripped as well.) Thumb is up through the hit and wrist is Ina position where it can pronate or supinate if required for roll over or under through the motion (it's probably afterwards that it turns but to me it feels like through)

I'll take a vid tomorrow.

I love claw hammers the weight helps force better body positions but they are light enough to feel the weight start to move and work out when to lock in the hit. It makes you focus on the most important bit

 

[Bradley Walker]

Mike Austin elongated the forward side to create a post. Dan Shauger compressed more than elongated. Shift left, compress, rotate weak side around.

I like to compress in my golf swing. My left butt cheek kind of sits left (very much stationary) as the right leg and right butt cheek swings around on the "front line". I like to feel like I even lean back a bit like a hammer thrower. Very much in that regard like Shawn Clement, SW22. My trailing foot comes off the ground almost immediately and my right knee is very bent.

Look at that video of that Dan's kid. He has the most kick ass golf swing doing just that.

That is the GG move.

 

[texasissouth]

lol Contrary to everyone's belief I am in fact from Virginia, the username fools everyone.
For some reason the video won't load for me right now, I'll check back in a bit.

There's some good discussion here, but I think in some ways it has super tilt spiraled out of control. I threw way too much yesterday in the field and played 18 holes today so I'm too exhausted to get any good video, but in a couple days I'll be posting up a new video to hammer home where I'm at right now (pardon all the puns). I was inspired by GG up above who I noticed plants his left foot a bit closer to perpendicular than most and still gets good hip rotation. The closer I plant my left foot to 90 the easier it is to keep my weight in front of it during the backswing.

I'm trying to add a few different things right now, and it feels promising but honestly I have no clue what it looks like right now.

1. Instead of turning my head with the disc and then trying to follow the path, giving me wonky head positions I've been picking a spot 15' or so to the left of the teepad and focusing there during the throw, and just letting my shoulders move my head. It seems to be a bit whippier but it's hard to get the same amount of trust for hitting lines.

2. I gotta take my final step farther to the left. I just gotta do it.

3. Wider reachback with a concentration on pulling the disc into the chest with the elbow and holding that shoulder rigid during the majority of the swing.

 

[deyo7]

After much thought, I am reversing my position.

Body rotation speed relative to the outward force is the overall lowest contributing force, although very important to the facilitation of the other forces. I know this because I am rotating much slower and throwing just as far. In ball golf you see players that appear to rotate quite slowly and still hit the crap out of the ball (including myself).

The overall wide arc is probably second (this would be rotation with your arm at full extension). A wide arc is easy power gains.... you see this in ball golf too. Big and wide is power.

The elbow uncocking is probably third. Some very good players do not bend their elbows much at all. Although critical for creating wrist angles.

And the wrist being bent back and ejecting the far side weight of the disc is first. But I do not believe that it is a full arcing pivot in the best players (as in the one finger throw). It is half an arc that stops at outward ejection. The disc does not pass the fingers in the best backhands. And the outward force is used to create perfect ejection in conjunction with the "steely stop" of the wrist.

So, to clarify, has your position on the subject of the "disc pivot" changed at all from your earlier snap videos? Link is here: https://youtu.be/QhM6XMxlErk (I understand some of your thoughts in this have been abandoned, like the straight line but I'm just asking about the hand/wrist position relative to opposite edge of disc being thrown concept).

And if it has, can you clarify how so? I.e., if it's the a quintessential piece/#1 what exactly do we need to do - is it anything more than simply holding the throwing edge back as long as possible until that outward ejection happens?

 

[sidewinder22]

I am still waiting to see if all those videos get taken down because it teaches the grip being sideways. Which is wrong.

Kind of like turning your grip over 90 degrees on a golf club and chopping down it is not a golf swing.

Nope. Grip your disc and then open your thumb and slide a hammer in there. Note I'm swinging upward on hyzer. Flat or horizontal swing plane doesn't exist.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Instead of turning my head with the disc and then trying to follow the path, giving me wonky head positions I've been picking a spot 15' or so to the left of the teepad and focusing there during the throw, and just letting my shoulders move my head. It seems to be a bit whippier but it's hard to get the same amount of trust for hitting lines.

2. I gotta take my final step farther to the left. I just gotta do it.

3. Wider reachback with a concentration on pulling the disc into the chest with the elbow and holding that shoulder rigid during the majority of the swing.

1. Is a recipe for spine injury and totally wrong focus. It is physically impossible for your head turning put you in wonky position. You are not maintaining your balance/posture.

2. Is Will stepping to the left or right? Is head moving fluid with disc?


3. Lower arm/disc swings into center from elbow hinge/lag, not pulled. Shoulder should be fluid/dingle arm - not rigid, maintain wider angles(not a single angle) while lagging, just don't want too much lag where you lose taut feeling to the disc/weight and ability to sling it to target.

 

[rhatton1]

Just found this video I made for the aforementioned friend about 5 months back.... from my kids bedroom of all places (not sure why I filmed it there, I may have been building something at the time )

This is what I like to use the clawhammer for, I don't tend to throw it, just drilling to the position of slinging the head forward, it just helps build a consistent release point and the weight of the hammer slinging forward helps you feel the hit and the weight also helps pull your body into better positions.

If you removed the hammer and put a disc in there it would pretty much be my fan grip in correct orientation to the arm, thumb would just be on top rather than wrapped around the shaft. It looks sideways on because I'm on hyzer angle, if you imagine a disc in line with my arm there, the thumb will be pointing upwards in comparison to the angle.

 

[Bradley Walker]

The thumb is pointed back and to the left at the hit in this drill. When you bend your elbow your thumb is pointed towards you like if you were holding the disc vertical. Neither one of these positions are correct if the disc were flat.

Sorry, I don't get it...

 

[Bradley Walker]

Nope. Grip your disc and then open your thumb and slide a hammer in there. Note I'm swinging upward on hyzer. Flat or horizontal swing plane doesn't exist.

THIS is correct. This is also NOT what I am seeing you guys doing in the swing drills. The hammer is turned sideways almost 90 degrees.

 

[Bradley Walker]

So, to clarify, has your position on the subject of the "disc pivot" changed at all from your earlier snap videos? Link is here: https://youtu.be/QhM6XMxlErk (I understand some of your thoughts in this have been abandoned, like the straight line but I'm just asking about the hand/wrist position relative to opposite edge of disc being thrown concept).

No, you absolutely throw the other side of the disc in every shot. Including putting. Where throwing the other side of the disc is the trick to spin putting.

I don't think the disc revolves ALL THE WAY AROUND the wrist in a backhand. The ARC of the disc is 90 degrees on a backhand and closer to 140 on a forehand.

 

[rhatton1]

The thumb is pointed back and to the left at the hit in this drill. When you bend your elbow your thumb is pointed towards you like if you were holding the disc vertical. Neither one of these positions are correct if the disc were flat.

Sorry, I don't get it...

I snug the hammer under the thumb a bit more to hold it more firmly ( i don't want to throw it through the wall!!) . The thumb position changes from disc to hammer but the finger grip/wrist position doesn't, holding that hammer is my exact fan grip, it's amazing how interchangeable it is. You can do it with the thumb on top of the hammer, in pretty much an exact Disc golf grip it just leads to a weaker lock on a heavy object which might be ok for outside practice but not inside!

 

[Bradley Walker]

I am sorry, I really can't agree with this. In this frame if you were to open your hand frame and drop the hammer your palm would be facing the floor. Your palm should be facing your chest.

Your thumb is facing back to push the hammer when it should be on top.

I have swung lots of stuff (golf clubs, training devices, and yes hammers). If you do the drill correctly the weight of the hammer will bow your wrist back in the vertical plane. Yours cannot bow as it is rotated almost 90 degrees open as you point the handle at the camera. I am sorry, this is very misleading and not correct.

What you are doing here is something like GG does as he flips the disc from vertical to flat through the hit.

 

[texasissouth]

1. Is a recipe for spine injury and totally wrong focus. It is physically impossible for your head turning put you in wonky position. You are not maintaining your balance/posture.

2. Is Will stepping to the left or right? Is head moving fluid with disc?


3. Lower arm/disc swings into center from elbow hinge/lag, not pulled. Shoulder should be fluid/dingle arm - not rigid, maintain wider angles(not a single angle) while lagging, just don't want too much lag where you lose taut feeling to the disc/weight and ability to sling it to target.

1 I more meant that I feel like I'm trying to follow the throw with my head/move my body with my head and maybe that's why in newer videos even though I'm coming over the top less, my head position is not aligned with the rest of my spine.

2 In comparison to Will, what about Brinster's staggered stance?

Or Eagle

3 basically what I was trying to say, shooting for for those. I feel if I try and focus on shoulder angle I get a much whippier feeling with my hand, at the loss of some angle control. Need to experiment some more.

 

[rhatton1]

I am sorry, I really can't agree with this. In this frame if you were to open your hand frame and drop the hammer your palm would be facing the floor. Your palm should be facing your chest.

Your thumb is facing back to push the hammer when it should be on top.

Yes to hold onto the hammer, the fingers are in the exact position they are when I have a disc in them. The thumb just moves on top with the disc.

I have swung lots of stuff (golf clubs, training devices, and yes hammers). If you do the drill correctly the weight of the hammer will bow your wrist back in the vertical plane. Yours cannot bow as it is rotated almost 90 degrees open as you point the handle at the camera. I am sorry, this is very misleading and not correct.

I don't understand what you mean with the vertical plane. I have the kids here now, I will take another video tomorrow and start a new thread to stop thread drifting Texas's!

 

[Bradley Walker]

It's really not important. I am really not all that concerned with proper hammer grip.

 

[slowplastic]

2 In comparison to Will, what about Brinster's staggered stance?

Or Eagle

Their stances aren't staggered...they are aligned. They are striding along their aligned stance, shifting their weight along the aligned stance.

Just the trajectory/release line is closed of their stance. So don't think of your trajectory line and then stride to the left at the end. Stride in line, in balance, and have the release happen closed of you to the trajectory you want.

 

[sidewinder22]

In comparison to Will, what about Brinster's staggered stance?

Or Eagle

It's all the same "move", but slightly different posture, trajectories, and shaping shots. Brinster starts in a wider diagonal stance than Eagle and GG, but they end up in the same position even though their rear foot slides in different appeared directions, it ends in the same diagonal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s