Form Check

[texasissouth]

I feel like I've plateaued in terms of distance and I was wondering if I could hear what all I was doing wrong. Here are 6 drives back to back to back I managed to slo mo today.
Shout out to sidewinder, it was nice chatting with you at the soiree the other weekend.



https://youtu.be/rgL6jpWTylA

 

[UhhNegative]

Striding too far on your plant step which looks like it throws off your balance and you end up pushing off your rear heel instead of instep/toes. Your leaning back instead of turning back which is putting your weight too far over your rear foot and then you lose control a little and don't stay centered.

It's not necessary, but it could help your timing to reachback quite a bit later too. You are basically at full extension for your entire last stride. That's all I see but I'm sure SP and SW will have more helpful comments.

 

[texasissouth]

Hmm I've definitely thought about shortening that last step before it's just hard to build new habits. I think some of the timing with the reach back will work better if I plant shorter. I'm definitely beginning my rear extension too early. I'll tinker some tomorrow. My goal I try to do is track over the left foot with the disc for the reach back buuuuttttt I definitely do not accomplish that.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

On that long stride I kinda thinking the same thing your actual shoulder turn seems timed ok with the stride but then your plant foot keeps going for another 12" or more after where I expected it to plant. And hard to tell from the angle but maybe could be more closed as well.

I'm always confused by what looks like different off arm positions and timing as well when it looks to me so much different than what I think is correct from one pro to the other but it looks kinda late getting that in tight.

any way you are probably throwing 60+ feet further than me so I don't think I can add much,
BUT... that Shusterick looking bent knee plant and pivot i'm not sure is long term sustainable?
The third throw anyway hurt MY knee watching it. The last throw was a bit easier looking as far as torque on the knee?

 

[slowplastic]

Really similar style to Schusterick in lots of ways.

Your first step in behind with the left foot is too far. You reach way out there with the left foot, and when you put weight on it your knee and spine are still behind the foot. You can't get any leverage until your weight and joints are inside of your stance. Below you can see Will does have a seemingly long left foot step too, but he hops/floats to the left foot so by the time he has any weight on that foot his mass is already inside of his stance. You have to keep waiting and waiting for your weight to get inside of the foot, and your rear knee is on the outside of the foot for nearly the entire time.

Also because of this long step you turn your foot 180 degrees from the target, rather than 130ish. You then have to push off the heel and your rear leg kind of locks out rather than driving the rear knee forward off of the instep.

I believe you're also going over the top, kind of throwing your upper body/shoulders/upper spine toward the target to begin the throw. Will lands with his pelvis/lower spine on the front leg and then after catching his weight the rotation starts.

 

[texasissouth]

As far as leaning back I guess I should mention I am throwing slightly uphill, maybe 20' uphill. I've got a pile of wood I'm aiming at that a range finder said was about 450, I'm coming up short by 20-40 feet and want to be able to reach it eventually.
Knee generally feels good, I did tweak it last winter playing in a tournament where it was like 12 degrees cause I never got warm and wasn't pivoting on my heel well. That being said the main soreness I get after long tournaments is my Tensor fasciae latae, I do a lot of foam rolling my hips.

Schusterick is definitely my form inspiration, I think that's what I was closest to when I started so I've tried to tweak it closer whenever I've watched myself. I was always more inclined to do a stride/walk x step and most other big throwers do a hop or a full run up which always knocks me way off.

I think I can begin my work in a couple changes, I want to stay up on my left toes instead of dropping my heel, and shortening my strides some, see if that helps keep my hips forward and not lagging behind everything else. Schusterick definitely seems to be skipping over that foot during his step, his hips don't drop during it at all.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hey whats up! Note how your rear foot/leg is pointed 180 away from target and your throwing shoulder isn't reached back close to rear knee(knee is not leveraged forward of ankle) and your rear arm is really cranked back away from your center, while Will is more lateral with the knee leveraged forward of the ankle and throwing shoulder stacked right over rear knee, and rear arm is in tight to center. Also note how Will's femurs are more upright/athletic position, where your rear femur/hip is almost horizontal and locked out.

When your front heel finally plants your upper body has gone over top the lower body and your center has shifted way forward, note how Will's shoulders are still leveraged behind the hips and has a much more balanced and compact weightshift.

See Understanding Weightshift, Best Downswing Weightshift "that shift is 1" long", Super Tilted Spiral, and Power of Posture. Keep your rear arm in tight and use your feet to turn your hips/body into the backswing, not your arm, your arm can't turn your body, it's just kinks up the spine.

 

[texasissouth]

I did some quick throwing today and threw without my left heel touching the ground. I definitely felt like I was more falling into the plant than I did before. however everything else feels like it's being rushed by this.

I have a quick question about the knee loading up with an upright shin. In the EO2015 vid of Will; if you go back a couple frame from your first screen **** it seems he has a similar loading position. Obviously my foot is turned way too far, and I'm working on fixing that, but I was curious about that part. He moves that knee to the point you have highlighted REALLY quickly, but it seems hard to load your hips back and not have that shin straight with the ankle.
Also I'm 100% not leading with my hips, I think that's the most obvious problem.

 

[sidewinder22]

That needs to happen much earlier in the stride, not when you are planting. You are off balance in the x-step/Hershyzer and too late leveraging your weight forward off the rear side into the plant. Your front heel takes forever to plant because there's no weight behind/with it. See how Simon's head is balanced/leveraged forward of the leg mid stride, and also note how more narrow and lateral his stance is. Compact weightshift/upright stance is much more efficient. It's going to feel really weird to you, what feels very powerful is actually very slow and inefficient - you want quickness/suddenness and athletic, the ability to redirect your weight, not overcommitment to one direction.

 

[texasissouth]

This is making a bit more sense. When I was throwing around today everything felt like it was going too fast, which eventually will be a boon. I do like how keeping that left heel up feels, I probably need a long multi drive practice round to tie it together enough to take more footage and see what I've actually done.

 

[texasissouth]

Quick question that seems simple. Looking at some slow motion of the lizotte drive and this video


and completely ignoring Feldberg, it seems that the hips stay roughly parallel to the target and don't begin to wind up until after the left toes hit the dirt. Whereas I am guilty of pre-turning my hips, and basically taking a step backwards with the left foot more than anything. Should I be delaying that hip load until the left foot is touching the ground?

 

[slowplastic]

If your left foot in behind step was 8" or so shorter, or, you hopped/glided a bit to the left foot, then your hips wouldn't be forced to turn as much and your foot wouldn't have to go to 180 degrees to the target. The long left foot step is the culprit. You can see they all turn the pelvis back to the target like 10-20 degrees maybe from the left step and then continually load into the rear hip internally deeper and deeper as they stride forward with the plant foot and continue this late load into the plant.

 

[UhhNegative]

Yep. The hip turnback definitely shouldn't be before the rear foot gets down, and in this video the hips turn back (for everyone) during the plant foot striding out. The key being that when they plant, they are at full extension with hips fully loaded. Everything is loaded and ready to rotate. Any rotation before the plant is known as a "spin out". That's why you will hear people saying keep turning further into the plant. Look up the door frame drills and hershyzer drills.

 

[texasissouth]

If your left foot in behind step was 8" or so shorter, or, you hopped/glided a bit to the left foot, then your hips wouldn't be forced to turn as much and your foot wouldn't have to go to 180 degrees to the target.

The hip turnback definitely shouldn't be before the rear foot gets down, and in this video the hips turn back (for everyone) during the plant foot striding out.

This is making a lot of sense. My long left plant and having it at 180 is because I've been purposefully turning my hips early. So based on what I'm focusing on when I throw the plant isn't exactly the cause of the hip issue, the hip is causing the poor plant. I got a lot of timing slop and over the top to fix as well but I need to start with this.

 

[texasissouth]

Ooookkkkayyy so X-step is off the table for now, even my usual slow walk up. I've tried more than a few drives and focused on that foot and nothing changed except it all felt awful. The timing was still terrible, I was still off the back heel.
So here are some standstill mid shots where I'm trying to just work on that foot angle. I'm not sure how I'll translate it eventually when I do get it, but it definitely still needs work. Also you can watch me shank one something awful.

 

[texasissouth]

Sorry for double post but on the last throw you can see I take literally one step and that rear foot is trash.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah you're trying to lead the throw with the upper body/shoulders/upper spine and going over the top. You can see when you are loading back in the standstill shots you are tilting your spine back like 20 degrees, then as you weight your plant foot your spine is all of the sudden leading the throw and tilted targetwards 20 degrees. Got to transfer the pelvis/spine onto the lead leg in balance.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127477

 

[texasissouth]

I understand the leading with the spine into the throw, and that I do it. I'm not sure I understand the spine tilting back part of the load, is that supposed to happen? It looks like there's a little lean backwards in that lead card slow motion, are you saying to hold that angle so it lines up with the plant leg and you have one solid brace line from the heel up to the head?

I'm mostly trying to start from the ground up, starting with my pesky poor footwork then getting into leading with hips once they're in the right place at the right time. I'll be cognisant of that spine angle moving forward. At this point if I managed to have any part of my throw change I'd be ecstatic, I feel like I'm doing one thing and check the camera and everything just reverts to my prior form.

 

[slowplastic]

The backswing should be centered/balanced on the rear leg, the spine dynamically balanced inside/on the rear leg. This is easier to spot in a standstill type of shot. Then the spine is transferred onto the lead leg. The spine should be tilted away from the target still as the lead leg catches your weight, whereas you are pushing the upper spine forward and overtop of your lead leg. Basically the backswing and forward swing mirror each other...backswing turns back balanced on the rear leg, weight shifts to front leg, swing forward off front leg.

The spine tilting away from the target in your backswing is not good...it feels powerful but it's just a lean rather than internally loading your rear hip. It also gets magnified in your X-step since you leave the shoulders/spine behind your rear foot.

Watch the open/closed drill here at around 6:55. I'm sure SW22 will have some explanations as well.

 

[texasissouth]

I seems like there really isn't enough time to do all of these things in the short time between each foot plant