[Question] Innova Beast

[Stable]

*I made no effort to search about this topic to see if it's already been addressed.*

All Beasts currently being produced are the 'old mold' correct? Meaning they are more stable than the 10/5/-2/-2 that I remember them being around 2005? I see that the flight #'s on the stamp haven't changed.

If anyone has thrown both the Beast & the MVP Inertia I'd really appreciate a comparison. It seems like most are placing the Inertia at a speed 11?

 

[Twmccoy]

I'm pretty sure you're right that all Beasts being produced these days are X mold. I haven't thrown one in a while, but 10, 5, -2, 2 sounds about right. With the L mold I'd say 10, 5, -3, 1.

The Beast L for me was like a longer Sidewinder. Lots of glide, high speed turn, and little low speed fade. Flippy.

 

[armiller]

Here's one on the different Beast molds. I found it when I was trying to ask similar questions. I'm still not totally clear. I've thrown a decent number of Star Beasts, and I'm still not sure which mold it is that I'm liking. I've found a couple that are duds, and I wonder if those were the "X" or "old mold." I've noticed some difference in the wing, and the ones I like tend to have lower PLH and higher dome. Anyways, I'm still not sure if they're standard Innova variations in the same mold, or totally different molds. Oh well, still a solid and underrated disc.

It's also possible that all the ones I've thrown were old mold/X, and that the pathetic DX ones I find on occasion are the new mold/L...

 

[Twmccoy]

Beast Ls have a straight rim, like a Sidewinder. Beast Xs have a concave rim. I'm guessing you like Beast Xs better since they're by far the superior model.

I'll never understand why Innova saw fit to mess with the Beast in the first place.

 

[Stable]

Beast Ls have a straight rim, like a Sidewinder. Beast Xs have a concave rim.

I remember it having a flat rim. So the Beast X's (current) have a Valkyrie shape to add stability with a wider rim? Sounds good. Valkyries are incredible but I can throw my Stalkers almost as far. Just looking for one extra notch in speed for seperation.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Which mold are the Barry Sigs? I had one of those and as I recall, it had a pretty flat top if not puddled but still had nice flip up and glide to it...

 

[SD86]

I'll never understand why Innova saw fit to mess with the Beast in the first place.

My understanding is that the original mold (old X?) was tweaked to a newer mold-up. Then that physical mold broke or wore out. They ordered another one, but were sent the mold corresponding to the old, original specs. And confusion has reigned supreme ever since...

 

[Three Putt]

I'll never understand why Innova saw fit to mess with the Beast in the first place.

It's a tale of three discs. Four if you consider the Starfire and Starfire L different discs.

The Beast was out in I think '03 and it was the new hotness since all anybody could do with their Valks was cry and complain that they weren't CE anymore. That summer Innova had a new CFR-only disc out, which was a weird marketing thing but anyway...that disc was the Starfire. The Starfire was more overstable than the Beast and they fit next to each other in the line-up.

The next year they came out with the Orc. I'm not sure what the Orc was supposed to be, but it turned out to overlap the Beast with a pretty similar flight. There really was no reason to keep both, and the Orc was (any guess?) the new hotness. So they decided to do something to the Beast.

Remember that the Starfire is still there on the OS side of the Beast/Orc, so the logical thing was to retool the Beast over to the less-stable side. With a little tweak to take out some of the fade, you would have a disc with about the same HSS flight and less fade in the LSS end. Sounds good, right? It also almost exactly describes how the Starfire L flies. :|

The Monster was already there on the super beefy side of the Starfire, so about all you could do to the Beast to make it have a unique flight at that speed was make it super flippy. So super flippy it became.

Right away I was unhappy. I could throw the old mold Beast. The Orc had a dumpier fade and didn't glide as well as the original Beast. It was going to cost me 15'-20' if I had to throw it.

I didn't have to throw it, though. The people who got stuck there were people who insisted on throwing Champ plastic. The DX Beasts were old mold for a long time after the other plastics were switched, so you could throw those. I opted for the Pro Starfire, which was maybe a tick flippier but pretty close with less fade.

Also the Wraith came out. The Wraith erased any perceived mishandling of the Beast. It was new hotness x10. So after a bit it wasn't that big of a deal that the Beast had been retooled because everyone was throwing a Wraith anyway.

In retrospect I get what they were doing, but I wish it was the Orc that had been retooled. Old mold Beast>Orc.

 

[Stable]

Found this on the MarshallStreet profile of the 'Barry' Champion Beast:


Bringing back the original, more stable mold!Originally Posted by Innova Customer ServiceThank you for throwing INNOVA. It appears the main question here is: Will Beasts only be produced with the new "old mold"? The answer is yes.Here is the whole story which should answer all of your other concerns.The Beast was created in late 2002. After Barry Schultz won his second world championship in 2004, Dave Dunipace made a slight change to the Beast mold to make it a little less high speed stable than the original. He felt the original Beast was too similar to the Orc. Since the original mold was retooled, we have only able to produce the new retooled Beast.In 2014, problems arose with the Beast. Malfunctioning mold parts could no longer be used and were retired. We ordered new Beast parts from our mold making company. They mistakenly produced the Beast from the original disc specifications and not from the updated 2004 specifications. So now we have a new "old mold" Beast. Barry Schultz was very happy about it as he got his beloved original Beast back. Since we can no longer make the Beast with the faulty retooled parts, every Beast going forward will be made with the new "old mold". It is possible some retailers will continue to have older Beasts in stock until they sell out.The flight numbers on the Beast will remain unchanged as they accurately reflect the flight of the current version of the Beast. Collectors will be able tell an original old mold from the new old mold as the new mold does not have patent numbers. The only way to tell the difference between the retooled mold and the new "old mold" Beasts is by the shape of the rim. Most Beast throwers and savvy collectors are already aware of these facts. Again, all Beasts going forward will be made in the new "old mold".

 

[Twmccoy]

I remember it having a flat rim. So the Beast X's (current) have a Valkyrie shape to add stability with a wider rim? Sounds good. Valkyries are incredible but I can throw my Stalkers almost as far. Just looking for one extra notch in speed for seperation.

Yes, precisely. Do yourself a favor and find a champion Beast X. Very nice 10 speed driver. Very workable without being too flippy.

Beast Ls just feel clunky and slower than Beast Xs. I never liked the Beast L, and I tried quite a few of them. Distance was there, but the disc didn't seem consistent with S curves.

 

[Twmccoy]

It's a tale of three discs. Four if you consider the Starfire and Starfire L different discs.

The Beast was out in I think '03 and it was the new hotness since all anybody could do with their Valks was cry and complain that they weren't CE anymore. That summer Innova had a new CFR-only disc out, which was a weird marketing thing but anyway...that disc was the Starfire. The Starfire was more overstable than the Beast and they fit next to each other in the line-up.

The next year they came out with the Orc. I'm not sure what the Orc was supposed to be, but it turned out to overlap the Beast with a pretty similar flight. There really was no reason to keep both, and the Orc was (any guess?) the new hotness. So they decided to do something to the Beast.

Remember that the Starfire is still there on the OS side of the Beast/Orc, so the logical thing was to retool the Beast over to the less-stable side. With a little tweak to take out some of the fade, you would have a disc with about the same HSS flight and less fade in the LSS end. Sounds good, right? It also almost exactly describes how the Starfire L flies. :|

The Monster was already there on the super beefy side of the Starfire, so about all you could do to the Beast to make it have a unique flight at that speed was make it super flippy. So super flippy it became.

Right away I was unhappy. I could throw the old mold Beast. The Orc had a dumpier fade and didn't glide as well as the original Beast. It was going to cost me 15'-20' if I had to throw it.

I didn't have to throw it, though. The people who got stuck there were people who insisted on throwing Champ plastic. The DX Beasts were old mold for a long time after the other plastics were switched, so you could throw those. I opted for the Pro Starfire, which was maybe a tick flippier but pretty close with less fade.

Also the Wraith came out. The Wraith erased any perceived mishandling of the Beast. It was new hotness x10. So after a bit it wasn't that big of a deal that the Beast had been retooled because everyone was throwing a Wraith anyway.

In retrospect I get what they were doing, but I wish it was the Orc that had been retooled. Old mold Beast>Orc.

Interesting. For whatever reason I always liked the Beast more than the Orc. The Beast seemed to glide a little better and hold a line longer than the Orc. Orcs seemed to want to fade more sharply and sooner. I threw both molds extensively over a decade ago. Old mold Beasts were always a joy to crank on long, open holes where you could get the disc to flex out. Orcs for me were never as long as Beasts.

I've always dug the Starfire (not the L though). Regular champion Starfires are things of beauty. You can crank them hard and flat without fear of them flipping. At one point I bagged the Wraith, Beast, and Orc. However, of all the discs mentioned here I only currently bag the Starfire. I agree with you that the Wraith was mega when it came out. Suddenly I was cranking Wraiths further than I ever threw Orcs or Beasts. I still like the Wraith, but I haven't bagged it in years. The Destroyer pretty much took over Wraith duties, and I feel the Destroyer does a better job of it.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote about all those discs.

 

[Casey 1988]

Interesting. For whatever reason I always liked the Beast more than the Orc. The Beast seemed to glide a little better and hold a line longer than the Orc. Orcs seemed to want to fade more sharply and sooner. I threw both molds extensively over a decade ago. Old mold Beasts were always a joy to crank on long, open holes where you could get the disc to flex out. Orcs for me were never as long as Beasts.

I've always dug the Starfire (not the L though). Regular champion Starfires are things of beauty. You can crank them hard and flat without fear of them flipping. At one point I bagged the Wraith, Beast, and Orc. However, of all the discs mentioned here I only currently bag the Starfire. I agree with you that the Wraith was mega when it came out. Suddenly I was cranking Wraiths further than I ever threw Orcs or Beasts. I still like the Wraith, but I haven't bagged it in years. The Destroyer pretty much took over Wraith duties, and I feel the Destroyer does a better job of it.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote about all those discs.

They made the Destoyer a further flying Orc/Wraith combo in feel with Orc type top and wider Wraith shape to the wing. My brother used a Beast for a few years before getting rid of the disc. Now he uses a Orc for his distance disc, trying a Dominator I got him for birthday but it had the big dome so it was too hard to get flying initially for him.

 

[Three Putt]

Interesting. For whatever reason I always liked the Beast more than the Orc. The Beast seemed to glide a little better and hold a line longer than the Orc. Orcs seemed to want to fade more sharply and sooner. I threw both molds extensively over a decade ago. Old mold Beasts were always a joy to crank on long, open holes where you could get the disc to flex out. Orcs for me were never as long as Beasts.

That was my general take. The old mold Beast was right out there on the edge of how fast a disc I could actually throw, and it had a good fade/glide combination. It seemed to be a disc that a wide variety of players found a use for. Because it covered such a variety of skill levels, what worked best as a replacement varied.

Orcs faded earlier and harder on me, and since it was already questionable for me to be throwing a disc that fast I got the added bonus of some speed stability thrown in there. It was a disc I just could not throw. Starfires fell into the same range for me, just a bit too fast/overstable for me to work with. The Starfire L was a lot closer to the old mold Beast for my skill level. For players with more power, the SL flipped too easily and the added stability of the Starfire made it a better option. Some must have liked Orcs as well, although I don't know why. :|

So I think our experience with the old mold Beast line up, we just were at different ends of the "variety of skill levels" that could throw the disc. Where you moved on to Wraiths and Destroyers, I eventually just went back to throwing Valks.

 

[Twmccoy]

Yeah, the SL never really grew on me, especially in star. Star SLs for me were flat and glideless. Pro SLs at least had some dome and could be ripped for pretty big yardage.

IDK if you ever threw pro Orcs, but those things were distance monsters. They flew much, much further than champion Orcs.

Of Innova's speed 10 offerings the Starfire is still my favorite. I'd say the Beast X is my second favorite. I just keep a Starfire in the bag for shortish flat drives in pretty much any wind condition. I don't use the Starfire to set distance records. Its dependable and will handle a huge rip without flipping or otherwise flying erratically.

For all out distance driving I generally use a Boss, Shryke, or Nuke. I want something fast with a touch of high speed turn and good glide. Things like the Orc and Wraith have been obsoleted for me. I only have 1 speed 11 disc in the bag, and its a Surge.

 

[Sydex]

*I made no effort to search about this topic to see if it's already been addressed.*

All Beasts currently being produced are the 'old mold' correct?

From my understanding based on other posts here and from emailing MarshallStreet and Infinite is that the only Beasts that are the Beast-X, currently, are GStar and Champ (maybe DX also). To my knowledge there haven't been any Star or Pro runs of Beast-Xs.


Correct me if I'm wrong?

Though, I'm a fan of both. Love throwing Pro Beasts for rollers and the Beast-L in champ kicked out the AvengerSS from my bag as I preferred the sliding turn over the flip up and get right fast flight of the AvengerSS.

 

[SonicGuy]

There are pro beast-X. The only plastic not produced had been star.

Major warning to beast buyers. Innova only saw fit to distribute the newer Beast-X to it's West coast distributor. The East coast (Carolina Flying Discs) got old stock of the Beast-L. So while it is true that only Beast-X are being molded, if you purchase from an East coast shop you are probably going to get an L.

This is very sad for me as a loyal Marshall St. customer.

 

[Sydex]

There are pro beast-X. The only plastic not produced had been star.

Major warning to beast buyers. Innova only saw fit to distribute the newer Beast-X to it's West coast distributor. The East coast (Carolina Flying Discs) got old stock of the Beast-L. So while it is true that only Beast-X are being molded, if you purchase from an East coast shop you are probably going to get an L.

This is very sad for me as a loyal Marshall St. customer.

Okay, I've never seen them, I suppose. I did place an order on Marshall St. a year ago hoping to get Beast-Ls but what I received were very clearly Beast-Xs. This was before they changed their website. The new site makes it seem like all the Champ and GStar they have are Xs.

 

[SonicGuy]

Okay, I've never seen them, I suppose. I did place an order on Marshall St. a year ago hoping to get Beast-Ls but what I received were very clearly Beast-Xs. This was before they changed their website. The new site makes it seem like all the Champ and GStar they have are Xs.

East coast shops received a pile of Beast-X when they were originally run, before it was made clear that the X would be the main mold going forward. Now I don't know if you ordered during that time or just got (un) lucky. I also don't know how long it will take Carolina Flying Discs to burn through Innova's stash of L molds. I would assume a some point the well would run dry and X's would be stocked everywhere.

 

[Sydex]

East coast shops received a pile of Beast-X when they were originally run, before it was made clear that the X would be the main mold going forward. Now I don't know if you ordered during that time or just got (un) lucky. I also don't know how long it will take Carolina Flying Discs to burn through Innova's stash of L molds. I would assume a some point the well would run dry and X's would be stocked everywhere.

It was after Marshall St. posted the letter they received about the Beasts being the old mold from here on out from Innova. I'm really liking the X mold. It's my most consistent disc out to 450', though without any real sense of accuracy. I went back to AvengerSS' in ESP FLX to replace my Ls. I consider the discs as receiving something I didn't know I needed. :clap:

 

[Stable]

I've got a Champion Beast on the way. I'll report whether it's an X or L. I'll try and snap a rim profile.