Backhand 1357

[NoseDownKing]

You and I are in a similar boat.



Post 537 - some parts of that look a lot better to me

Post 538 - you are decelerating rather than accelerating entering the x-step->plant



The action before this is telling, but wanted to orient you to this. Not sure if this is the best part to attack head on but it stuck out to me.



When you pump, I think your posture is hanging more away from target and not in the most aggressive "ram swing." Upper body is a bit at odds with the lower body. Then, when you pump forward into your x-step, you bring your front arm slightly into the chicken wing posture - notice the angle at your shoulder leaking your elbow ahead of the shoulder - it should remain lagging behind it more like Will I think. Your front leg ends up extending more than Will's as you let the ram pull you out of posture toward the target. Will's grip reminds me more of a grip on a hammer too.



Compare to Will, who cradles the disc or ram "hugging the disc" or keeping it "trapped" by his chest throughout the move, allowing him to swing his upper body like a ram toward the target in his pump and then in his throw.

I also just realized, that my rear foot is nearly sideways. I think that could be a fairly large part of my issue.

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[sidewinder22]

Pretty sure Will is also wearing zero drop shoes while it looks like you are in high heels. Will lets his rear heel down on the ground and also gets his front heel down much quicker with more force/crush the can. Your front foot just seems to spin out.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/5e1maOdYn-k

Tried to force my heel to go down here. I think I need to fix this part more than anything, since otherwise I'm not throwing easy 500 footers lol.

Also injury prevention. I know a bad weight shifts does very bad things to your back.
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[NoseDownKing]

I'm not sure, but I think I'm still planting incorrectly. It looks like Will is more "behind" or "back" compared to me. When I plant my heel my whole body is more over the front foot compared to Will's.

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[sidewinder22]

Will has his hips/center more forward with the shoulder pulled further back behind more hinged rear hip. Door Frame/Bow Arrow drills.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/n0zVbeBT-AM

I tried getting my hips more centered, but the position(s) still looks off. The hips look to be way too close to the front foot during the planting phase. That knee snap in the follow through is like a dead giveaway that my balance is off.

IDK if this detail helps, but when I stop the throw midpull I tend to lose balance/tip upperbody towards north, sometimes northeast (if north is the target).

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[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/8Z8qWbyY0vE

Here is me stopping the throw midpull.


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[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/IxSnJIEa_WE

I don't see Tiger losing his balance and tipping towards the target.

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[NoseDownKing]

Best one I could find

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[NoseDownKing]

Maybe this gif works... sorry spam

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[sidewinder22]

https://youtu.be/8Z8qWbyY0vE

Here is me stopping the throw midpull.


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Your rear leg is extending and pushing your upper body over top. \

The "push" from the rear leg should change your tilt to away from target so the lower body moves underneath upper body. /
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/sKg4RwRCWmE

I'm trying to push with my foot/plantar flexion (you can see my heel come up), but it doesn't feel right at all. Don't see Will's heel come up super oddly like mine. IDK am I driving too hard, not hard enough, early, late, but what I do know is my current way is not even close to correct. I think my back foot does inversion instead of eversion, but IDK how to fix that. I know it has everything to do with a bad weightshift, but I was kind of trying to fix that by driving pushing with plantar flexion. Kind of a hamster's wheel.

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[sidewinder22]

Too late I think, and maybe not the correct motion winding up. You can see your rear heel move away from target after you plant, while Will's has already moved targetward. You end up with your knee slammed together in the finish while Will's are spread apart considerably.

I would focus on this move.. tucking the rear elbow to hip while rear foot rolls inward and knee bends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m40s

 

[NoseDownKing]

Too late I think, and maybe not the correct motion winding up. You can see your rear heel move away from target after you plant, while Will's has already moved targetward. You end up with your knee slammed together in the finish while Will's are spread apart considerably.

I would focus on this move.. tucking the rear elbow to hip while rear foot rolls inward and knee bends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m40s

Oh so it's more of a roll than a extension/push?

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[Icarus]

NDK,

I think we have having the same issue. I don't think it necessarily your movement that is incorrect. I think there are some timing issues at play that affects how the back knee/leg act during the throw. You and I both have some weight on the rear toe when the front heel plants, and only during the throw, when our throwing arm pulls in, do we de-weight the rear foot completely. The pros seem have the foot fully de-weighted when the front foot plants and before the throwing arm bends. Since this is a dynamic motion, trying to tuck the elbow/roll heel won't work as well if you try to do it late, since your hips are, at that point, already rotating into the throw.

It's not just a matter of moving quickly making the rear foot fully de-weight as the front foot plants. Tristan Tanner does the same thing even with a slower run-up.

If you figure out a feel for how to fix this timing issue, let me know! I need the help too!

 

[Brychanus]

For your consideration:

I'm still not completely seeing this curved part of the swing jiving with everything else in transition in NDK, your (Icarus), or my pattern. We all have our own version. Our swing patterns are a bit too flat or off axis somewhere, which makes it harder to roll & drop off the rear leg rather than extend or get stuck. It's a whole body issue, which is part of why I think SW is emphasizing the same elbow collect/rear foot roll in NDK and Icarus' recent posts.

It's the same thing that's happening in SW's dingle arm in a standstill, just that the weight shift is less obvious in this stance. But I'm sure his weight has shifted forward as Icarus described above:

I think there are a few ways to work on it and we've exchanged several. I have consistently found this easier to find and work on in standstills. For x-step, considerably harder. The one that is helping my body tell the difference most clearly this week is the windmill x-step. Not sure if it'll help either of you now or later. For me it's helping the elbow+shoulder path, roll off the rear foot, and swing curvature talk to each other:

 

[sidewinder22]

Oh so it's more of a roll than a extension/push?

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It's a combination, but you seem to be missing the roll.

 

[Hampejo]

NDK,
If you figure out a feel for how to fix this timing issue, let me know! I need the help too!

OLD has helped me a lot.

 

[NoseDownKing]

I'm "glad" we're all sharing similar issues lol. Definitely makes it easier.

That windmill throw seems tempting. I wonder what SW thinks about it, since obviously IDK is it gonna fix what I need to be fixed. Seems kind of unrelated to the rear foot issue, but maybe not...? I'll try the windmill to see if it helps, but if not I'll go straight back to what I was doing.

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[Brychanus]

I'm "glad" we're all sharing similar issues lol. Definitely makes it easier.

That windmill throw seems tempting. I wonder what SW thinks about it, since obviously IDK is it gonna fix what I need to be fixed. Seems kind of unrelated to the rear foot issue, but maybe not...? I'll try the windmill to see if it helps, but if not I'll go straight back to what I was doing.

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Please don't let me sidetrack/ "too many cooks" you and I defer to him.

What I'm getting at with the windmill is how it can help align the more circulare/wave-like part of the swing like the reciprocating dingle arm.

But I think it's wise to see what you get from the move he suggested first.

Just pointing out that it has helped me identify the difference in the move off the rear leg while moving through the x-step. Not sure if it will generalize for you at this moment.