FPO putting

[autocrosscrx]

Also, watch some of the FPO putting contests. Ohn and Heather Young usually win those or at least do well. It isn't that they are more conservative than other FPO players. They are better putters.

Which I guess brings me to the point that if some of the least athletic and shortest throwing touring FPO players can put at that level, then every FPO touring player can. And if every FPO touring player putted at that level, then we wouldn't be having that conversation.

 

[txmxer]

People like Tattar and Cat are down in the 60's. Kona was at 54%, Korver was at 51%, Rebecca Cox was at 48%, Jennifer Allen at 38%. Kona bombs and has really fluid and athletic form in comparison to most of FPO. I have no idea why she can't have a stock staggered stance spin putt and be top 10 in FPO in putting.

So, for this group of players, there are multiple strokes available each tournament if they can improve on C1X putting. Kona comes to mind as someone that changed her style, but is still struggling. There was discussion about it when she got her win early this year.

Reminds me of Shaq not being able to shoot free throws--something he struggled with throughout his career. His hands were too big apparently.

That's why I said the hand size thing makes sense to me.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Also, watch some of the FPO putting contests. Ohn and Heather Young usually win those or at least do well. It isn't that they are more conservative than other FPO players. They are better putters.

Which I guess brings me to the point that if some of the least athletic and shortest throwing touring FPO players can put at that level, then every FPO touring player can. And if every FPO touring player putted at that level, then we wouldn't be having that conversation.

I explained both of them above and why they're "short" off the tee. It's not "athleticism". It's poor form off the tee. Ohn has a very shortened, kinda wonky/mechanical reach back that is affecting her distance big time. I haven't had a chance to break down Heather's form but I'd bet anything there are quite a few weak links.

Both Ohn and Heather should actually throw a lot farther than what they currently do. They both have subpar backhand form, Ohn especially, I just watched some coverage of her from the Arizona tournament and remember thinking that if she got a swing coach to fix her form she could probably throw A LOT farther. I also think neither one of those two is trying to throw super far in terms of physical effort as well, they purposely are throwing smooth and trying to stay on the fairway.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I don't really buy the distance/strength thing. Not for C1X. Ohn Scoggins and Heather Young are the best putters in FPO and for the season, they had a better C1X percentage than McBeth, Heimburg, Dickerson, and KJUSA and had the same percentage as Hammes. And their weakness in their game is distance. If you look at the stats, Ohn left 24% of her drives short, HY left 22% short where Paige and Cat were at 11 and 13%.

Here is a thing to consider. McBeth was 34% from C2, Ohn was 15% from C2. Massive difference.

Total percentages from C1 and C2.

Ohn - 77% total.

McBeth - 79% total.

Putts per hole (total within 66 feet).

Ohn - 1.32

McBeth- 1.26

That directly shows that strength is helping McBeth make longer putts. Perhaps Ohn is laying up longer C2 putts (50-66 feet) as well though. Which then just adds to her C1 and C1X percentage easy tap in from within 15 feet.

I would guess that McBeth had a longer avg C1X putt as well as he tends to putt more aggressively. He's going to have more 25-30 foot comeback putts.

Simply put though when you look at the entire stats McBeth is making a higher percentage of putt and taking less putts per hole.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Reminds me of Shaq not being able to shoot free throws--something he struggled with throughout his career. His hands were too big apparently.

That's why I said the hand size thing makes sense to me.

Shaq was notoriously lazy and didn't practice nowhere near as hard over his career as he should have, and his poor shooting and free throw% is a reflection of that.

I've heard a lot of stories on how everyone said Shaq had the most raw talent of any BB player perhaps in history but will never be mentioned among the greats because of his poor work ethic, and that he coasted on pure talent and size alone. It was a running joke about how out of shape he would be during the off season.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Yep, this is 100% true in that it's difficult to compare C1X% for MPO vs FPO. It's a different game in that FPO putting is more in line with traditional golf (conservative play) while MPO is more like basketball (run everything). Just watch coverage and see for yourself, the MPO players aggressively run everything and constantly have longer comebacks. This is very apparent with C2 putting, where MPO players run them and have 30 footer comebacks while FPO players tend to try and put them close and have a lot of 12 -15 footers that boost C1X %.

This is why Paige's C1X stats don't tell the full story on how good she putts because she runs everything, aggressively and has lots of comeback misses which lower her stats. Same could be said of her tee game as well.

PP - 1.39 Putts per hole

Ohn - 1.32 Putts per hole

Paige makes more C2 putts but I wonder (very likely) if she 3 putts more often. I would say her aggressiveness is overall a good thing. She's more likely to get "hot" for a tournament and win.

I would say it's fair to call Ohn a better putter though. She's taking less putts per hole.

 

[Nick Pacific]

. Kona bombs and has really fluid and athletic form in comparison to most of FPO. I have no idea why she can't have a stock staggered stance spin putt and be top 10 in FPO in putting.

Size and strength matter only when technique and form are equal. The same reasons for why Ohn and Heather are short off the tee when compared to FPO field (form and technical errors) are the same reasons why Kona and Cat sttuggle on the green in comparison to the FPO field (form and technical errors).

Kona should be one of the top putters in FPO given her athletic abilities but I don't think she ever really had all the mechanics down correctly. You've got to get the mechanics right first AND put in the thousands of hours. She's mixed up her form a bunch and hasn't quite dialed in the right mechanics and stuck with one style of putting and hammered away at it.

This is exactly why Ohn is short off the tee despite putting so well. You gotta have the mechanics down right first THEN size and strength come into play. If your mechanics aren't solid then all bets are off and strength and size will only get you so far.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Here is a thing to consider. McBeth was 34% from C2, Ohn was 15% from C2. Massive difference.

Total percentages from C1 and C2.

Ohn - 77% total.

McBeth - 79% total.

Putts per hole (total within 66 feet).

Ohn - 1.32

McBeth- 1.26

That directly shows that strength is helping McBeth make longer putts. Perhaps Ohn is laying up longer C2 putts (50-66 feet) as well though. Which then just adds to her C1 and C1X percentage easy tap in from within 15 feet.

I would guess that McBeth had a longer avg C1X putt as well as he tends to putt more aggressively. He's going to have more 25-30 foot comeback putts.

Simply put though when you look at the entire stats McBeth is making a higher percentage of putt and taking less putts per hole.

The whole crux of the conversation was C1X. I think everyone agreed that it was more of a factor in C2.

 

[txmxer]

The whole crux of the conversation was C1X. I think everyone agreed that it was more of a factor in C2.

Absolutely. C2 putting is much more strategy. C1x is almost always a run in both opens. And since c1x is 10-33', there are a lot of misses in the 10-20' range.

There is some validity to MPO being in a better position to train/practice more as a whole.

I think we will see the FPO get stronger across the board in the coming years. More players with a well rounded game. The players that will be winning over the next decade will have to putt much closer to 80% inside c1x.

 

[oldmandiscer]

The whole crux of the conversation was C1X. I think everyone agreed that it was more of a factor in C2.

We simply don't know what the avg putt length is though either inside C1X. With McBeth being more aggressive I imagine he has longer C1X putts. Ohh is also laying up more from shorter range100-50 feet and is going to have many 20 foot and in putts. We simply don't have truly accurate enough data to compare.

No doubt Ohn is a very good putter and close to many MPO players from close range.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Absolutely. C2 putting is much more strategy. C1x is almost always a run in both opens. And since c1x is 10-33', there are a lot of misses in the 10-20' range.

There is some validity to MPO being in a better position to train/practice more as a whole.

I think we will see the FPO get stronger across the board in the coming years. More players with a well rounded game. The players that will be winning over the next decade will have to putt much closer to 80% inside c1x.

It's a balance of what do I do more, 1 putt from here or if I fly by so far how often do I 3 putt?

Is it more likely I 1 putt or 3 putt? Many FPO players tend to be conservative and simply layup from 45-50 feet and further out. The guys have much much higher percentage from C2. I do think in part because they have the power to make a standard putting motion and be accurate with it as well.

When you get to a certain point of having to put close to max effort in, accuracy will suffer. I think this leads to the FPO laying up more.

 

[Jolt]

The strange part for me is how many really short putts you see FPO players miss.

I´m an ok putter at my level but i think many FPO players would cruch me from circle edge and out. . but give me a 5m putt and i don´t really miss those ever. . many top FPO players miss a few of those every round. . .and i just don´t get why

 

[glassila]

I get the feeling that 15-25 footers are anxious putts for a lot of FPO players (and regular Joes too) because they know they are supposed to make them.
There isn't as much expectation to make longer putts so they aren't worried about missing which leads to a better putting stroke.
Does this make sense?

 

[oldmandiscer]

The strange part for me is how many really short putts you see FPO players miss.

I´m an ok putter at my level but i think many FPO players would cruch me from circle edge and out. . but give me a 5m putt and i don´t really miss those ever. . many top FPO players miss a few of those every round. . .and i just don´t get why

Crowds, cameras (people moving causing distractions), tournament pressure maybe. Could cause lack of focus and concentration. Some of them are simply not good putters too which is likely the greatest cause.

 

[txmxer]

I get the feeling that 15-25 footers are anxious putts for a lot of FPO players (and regular Joes too) because they know they are supposed to make them.
There isn't as much expectation to make longer putts so they aren't worried about missing which leads to a better putting stroke.
Does this make sense?

This is along the lines of what I'm thinking.

 

[Jolt]

maybe not PC to say but is not the "i´m going to make this" a guy thing? How many young guys me included have hurt themself doing something stupid thinking "i´m going to make this" . . there is a reason all the cast of "jackass" is male

So maybe, i don´t really know but a guy walking up to a short putt may have that "i´m going to make this" mentality. . .

Sidenote.
I don´t know how many times i have walked the fairway thinking i have parked the shot and allready counted the Birdy...just to see that the disc was further away than i thought and the "i might miss this thought starts to creep in"

 

[foxdawg10]

maybe not PC to say but is not the "i´m going to make this" a guy thing? How many young guys me included have hurt themself doing something stupid thinking "i´m going to make this" . . there is a reason all the cast of "jackass" is male

So maybe, i don´t really know but a guy walking up to a short putt may have that "i´m going to make this" mentality. . .

Sidenote.
I don´t know how many times i have walked the fairway thinking i have parked the shot and allready counted the Birdy...just to see that the disc was further away than i thought and the "i might miss this thought starts to creep in"

This may not be a popular opinion, but my guess is most of the guys posting in this thread are not good putters and miss short putts on a regular basis.

 

[Jolt]

This may not be a popular opinion, but my guess is most of the guys posting in this thread are not good putters and miss short putts on a regular basis.

Sure but my point is that many guys THINK they going to make it.

And it feels like many FPO players like Cat and Kona more think "i´m gioing to miss this" or "what if i dont make this in front of the crowd and cameras"

 

[ru4por]

Sure but my point is that many guys THINK they going to make it.

And it feels like many FPO players like Cat and Kona more think "i´m gioing to miss this" or "what if i dont make this in front of the crowd and cameras"

It seems you don't play with too many decent female disc golfers. I think trying to generalize thinking, based on gender, is a kind of silly venture.

I get to play with a few good female golfers and they, very much, think they are going to make the same putts, that I think I am going to make. If fact, having played several games and sports with females...I don't find their approach to those games much different at all. A couple had superior mental approaches to their sports.

 

[foxdawg10]

Sure but my point is that many guys THINK they going to make it.

And it feels like many FPO players like Cat and Kona more think "i´m gioing to miss this" or "what if i dont make this in front of the crowd and cameras"

This seems speculative at best.