When is OB too close to the basket?

[AdamE]

Let me start off by saying I like holes that have OB in play whether it's sidewalk, water, or whatever. IMO it adds challenge to the hole and makes you think about your shot and the risk/reward involved. I did not lose any discs in the water on this course so I don't have a grudge against it for eating my favorite disc.

Let me describe a few of the holes I encountered:

• about 280 feet slight downhill righty, hyzer shot with water 6 feet to the left of the basket

• about 250 with the basket set in in front of sidewalk that comes to a right angle behind the basket so you've got OB no more than 10 feet left, right and long and there's uphill immediately before the basket

• this one is very short, 200 feet, with a fast moving river 15-20 feet long, but it starts going downhill 5-6 past the basket and no more than 2 and a half feet right of the basket is large dense bushes

To me this seems gimmicky. I understand the designers were using these things as a way to make a course without many obstacles more difficult. But to me it's too close. If you can land 10 feet from the basket and be OB across a sidewalk or OB in water that is just too close IMO. I understand this course isn't meant to be for beginners because there's water in play, but it's not exactly a championship caliber course either.

So am I making a big deal out of nothing or do these holes sound unacceptably close to OB?

 

[tstack10]

Those are tight. I think
far enough away should be diameter or island greens they use. Maybe about 10 to
15 depending on throw. My home course has basket
locals 5 feet from basket and you just adjust your play for it.

 

[scarpfish]

Too close here? Nah.

 

[Dfwdscglfr]

that is a mean pin location but i like it :thmbup:

 

[billnchristy]

I like when they put toe boards up so a slide or roll won't cost you but an overshoot will.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Too close here? Nah.

It never fails, the "close OB" question comes up and the Hyzer Creek #16 picture always follows. The picture doesn't do the entire hole any justice........ It's a tight, wooded, double dogleg par 5 !

If you wanna play that hole, Sept 4th is the Battle of Saratoga.

 

[chain-addicted]

I like when they put toe boards up so a slide or roll won't cost you but an overshoot will.

Ditto...

 

[slowRoll]

At Jack Carter's personal course in Murfreesboro, he has a 265' sawdust hole with a 50' round OB area(sawdust) at the basket with a small mound of dirt in the center maybe 5' across with the basket sitting up on the dirt mound. I watched a guy take a 13 on it last year. Holes like this are fun and unique, but I'm glad they are not the norm.

 

[stsren]

OB is too close to the basket if I throw OB.

That pic of the basket in the creek is awesome! You think a lot of people go for the bird on that???

 

[[email protected]]

OB should be reserved for H20, roads, danger, and property lines. I HATE manufactured OB.

 

[scarpfish]

I HATE manufactured OB.

On courses that are too easy without it, its a necessary evil, at least for tournaments.

We have a tournament this Saturday in Winfield, KS that will be taking your rudimentary small town 9 holer, adding 4 extra holes (to meet the PDGA's 13 hole minimum for a rated round), and lots of strung off OB, including an "island" shot.

http://www.kansasdiscgolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3495&start=30
(scroll about halfway down the page to see map)

Sadly, I won't be going.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

That pic of the basket in the creek is awesome! You think a lot of people go for the bird on that???

Some do. The pic is actually took from a weird angle, with the fairway heading up a hill out of the right side of the picture. Here's the same shot from a bit further away.



From the tee, it's a downhill that doglegs from right to left.....

This is a picture about midway down the fairway(an average players' 2nd lie) on a flat area before the hill takes you down to the hole. The basket is straight over the hill from that burl knot on the bridge tree(now gone).

 

[runnaman]

I think 15 feet is the closest OB Should come to a basket on one side. If it's an island hole, I don't think the OB should be within the circle.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't think you can have an absolute rule-of-thumb on how close O.B. can or should be. Some factors that affect it are:

---Whether the O.B. is in front of, or behind, the basket.
---Whether the O.B. is water and, in particular, water you can lose a disc in. Particularly on courses that might have lots of beginners or casual players.
---Whether the O.B. is on just one side of the basket---leaving plenty of safety (cowardly) area to lay up in.
---The distance of the hole, or approach to the basket, affecting whether people are going for the basket (risk vs. reward), or whether the O.B. just causes them to lay up.

One big risk in close-to-the-basket O.B.s is the prospect that, if you go O.B., it's just a drop-in or gimme putt from your next lie. In MOST cases, I think O.B. should be 20' away so the comeback putt is missable.

*

Disclaimer: Our private course has a number of baskets very close to O.B., so I am clearly partial to the excitement and risk/reward.

 

[iloqutiss1]

Silver Creek in Manitowac, WI has a perfect island hole (tourney only) that seems to toe the line very nicely. 150' - 200' downhill shot with trees left and right (about 35' apart). Basket sits on grass island 30' - 40' diameter (slightly elliptical) bordered with 1' high rocks. The park road turn around surrounding the green is OB. Drop zone for OB is to the side by the road shooting perpendicular from tee shot into the narrowest area of the island maybe a 65' shot to basket. You're forced to choose to lay up from tee for a long bird shot/easy par or shoot for the island for bird. obviously this becomes a tough, though possible par if OB. When I played this hole the ground was snow covered and very icy. To further complicate things the OB was marked by a string which im told was narrower than the grass underneath. This was a pivitol hole of the tournament.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Some points to make:
1. Any OB should be there either for safety or for Risk/Reward.
2. If you have the OB for the Risk/Reward, design a "Safe Zone" or Drop Zone where a player can lay up. Don't just use OB to make a hole harder, without designing a conservative option. Otherwise it's not really Risk/Reward is it?
3. Design the OB to penalize wayward or risky shots, not just to randomly cost people strokes.
4. Try to design any OB to penalize RHBH and LHBH equally, over the course of the entire 18 holes. If you design a tough lefty hole, design a tough righty hole. Nobody wants to face the same shot over and over.
5. Over the course, design OB to penalize different mistakes. Nobody wants to face an island green on every basket, or tough water shot on the left every hole, etc.
Design, think, design, think, design, think!

 

[AdamE]

I don't think you can have an absolute rule-of-thumb on how close O.B. can or should be. Some factors that affect it are:

---Whether the O.B. is in front of, or behind, the basket.
---Whether the O.B. is water and, in particular, water you can lose a disc in. Particularly on courses that might have lots of beginners or casual players.
---Whether the O.B. is on just one side of the basket---leaving plenty of safety (cowardly) area to lay up in.
---The distance of the hole, or approach to the basket, affecting whether people are going for the basket (risk vs. reward), or whether the O.B. just causes them to lay up.

One big risk in close-to-the-basket O.B.s is the prospect that, if you go O.B., it's just a drop-in or gimme putt from your next lie. In MOST cases, I think O.B. should be 20' away so the comeback putt is missable.

*

Disclaimer: Our private course has a number of baskets very close to O.B., so I am clearly partial to the excitement and risk/reward.

I agree there doesn't need to be an absolute rule of thumb about this. There are only a couple holes in my area where OB is close (20-40 feet) to the basket and I like the risk/reward on them also.

I was shocked to see OB so extremely close to the basket, especially since some of the OB is water where discs are easily lost. I was doubly shocked to see no one has mentioned this in their review of the course. They've said things like water is in play and this isn't a beginner course, which are both true. I guess if you're used to playing courses with OB that close you don't think about it.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Having been thoughtful on the previous post, now I will indulge my Pet Peeve:
No OB should fall within the 10M circle.
There may be times when it's appropriate, just not as often as it usually happens.
Putting a basket 6' from the water is rarely good design, it's just an easy gimmick.

 

[AdamE]

Putting a basket 6' from the water is rarely good design, it's just an easy gimmick.

That's exactly what I was thinking while I was playing the course. I'm probably going to get all sorts of thumbs down when I write this review. No one's mentioned the proximity of OB to the basket or that's it's a gimmick hole. And when I was playing a tournament at another course in this city, the players seem to consider this course with gimmick holes their "tournament" course.

 

[Vegan Ray]

If basket is surrounded by OB, is a DROT OB? If not, where does one mark?