Chiefstang

Bitch boy

it was probably because Jrab was starting a bunch of troll threads and i'm pretty sure Jrab was somebody from DGR, but i don't know.

It's hard to follow you, since you never actually comment on what I write. Where did I say I like 350' holes with no obstacles? I like hole 3 at Ellison, for example. Short and tight, but even though it is tight, at least there *exists* a fairway. Same with hole 13 and 14. They reward a good throw, penalize a bad throw, and generally luck is a much smaller factor.
At Chili, I like hole 1 (even though it's blind, which means that I'm trying to explain where the hole is to beginners I bring to the course), and mostly I like hole 6 (with the same caveat, and also except for that ridiculous raised hill the basket is on). I like hole 14 which has plenty of obstacles (but again, despite the obstacles, at least it *has* a fairway.
Continued...

Re: Blind holes

Really, just hole 5? At Chili from the tee, I can't see hole 1, hole 2 in some positions, hole 3, hole 4, hole 6 (which you mistakenly call hole 5), hole 10, hole 11, hole 12 (depending on the time of year), hole 15, or hole 16. Actually, I can't see hole 18 either, but my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. I think it's probably visible.
Also, you seem upset that I don't play with you or any of your buddies. Why should you know me? How would you know me? I don't belong to any leagues... I just play with people I already know.
As far as aces, I don't think *any* hole should be an easy ace. That's why I don't really like holes 5, 6, 11, 12, and 18 at Ellison... they're too easy. But as I said, too hard is just as bad as too easy.
Finally, it's too bad that you want this to be all personal instead of being about quality course design. I'm very interested in diverse thoughts about hole lengths and fairway size.

Sorry I didnt see your message earlier man, just got familiar with the forum part of the site. I started on that dam 911' hole! I definitly loved the course but like you said, so different weather and it would of been the bees knees! LOL C-Tier FTW!!

I am leaving after dark. I have all day.

While I appreciate why the course pro updated the tees last year to concrete, and I recognize that most people prefer them, I don't (and of course, I stated the reasons why I don't like them).

Also, I'm surprised that you never played with someone who lost a disc on hole 6. For myself, I've brought over 100 first time players to Chili, Ellison, and Churchville (and over 30 to Basil and a dozen to MCC), and I've seen more lost discs at Chili than those other courses combined.

As to the next topic, I'd love to hear your thoughtful critique of each of the 9 holes at Geneseo, if you've played them. Which holes are too easy for you? What's your average score there?

For the record, my reviews don't take into account signage, nearby bathrooms, etc. I only focus on those factors that affect the gameplay itself. If you want to account for all that riff-raff, sure, Geneseo is not as good as Chili. I'm just rating the course design itself.

Regarding the long holes, when I write that they are "stupid", I mean that in the technical sense. Creating those hole required very little thought. If long is good, why don't we see more 10,000 foot holes? You obviously recognize that at some distance, the hole quality is degraded. We just seem to disagree on the number. I think that distance is around 650 to 700 feet. Obviously, most course designers agree with me, because there are very few courses with multiple holes of that length. The main thing about it is that with a 911 foot hole, I'm almost always going to get a 5 (I've gotten a 4 there only 2 or 3 times). Even if I have a bad initial drive, my score won't be punished. I believe that good course design rewards skill and punishes mistakes. This hole 11 just wears you out for no good reason.
continued...

Or, are you denying that the course is swampy? The alternative is that you are claiming that swampiness is in itself a good thing. That's just crazy.
I gather you like the hay bales and other artificial bunkers. For me, I've always thought they were cheesey. There are few if any other courses that have to resort to this kind of shenanigan. Similarly, I don't care for the artificial elevation of pin 6. It doesn't add to the difficulty, and just seems fake.

Regarding my comment about hole 5: do you truly think a fairway exists here, and I just don't see it? Sure, I get a lot of 2's here, but each one is only about luck. Please check out the PDGA course design guide regarding fairways before you answer. I notice you haven't been playing long, but as I've watched this and others holes on this course change over the past 15 to 20 years, the course has become more about luck and less about control. Fairways should be measured in feet, not inches.
continued...

Chiefstang,

Well, it's true that the game was very different in the 70's and 80's. There were no baskets back then, and holes were usually shorter and often more technical. Also, we really only had those nasty Whamo's to throw. But, you don't make it very clear what you're angry about. Your thought that I'm playing a "different game" seems to be intended to be merely insulting. My typical score at Chili/Baker's Farm/Widener is about 55. What's yours? There are a lot of players who throw better than this, but it isn't as if I don't know anything about this sport.

You aren't specific about what's "horrible" about my review, to use your word.
Are you denying that there are a lot of blind holes? Or, are you just asserting that you think blind holes are good? Even according to the PDGA course design document, blind holes are discouraged.
continued...

Not sure where in TX you go to, but I will be at the Ace Race in Austin 9/3

You just cracked me up in some bag thread I was reading in a response to Loki!!

Pussy

Yeah, were you one of the ones in my doubles group on Tuesday? I'm heading out to Basil for a round today. A friend was going to come with me, but something came up and he backed out, so I'm going alone.

We might come out for the day on Saturday or Sunday. I've got your number, I'll let you know.

Hey now. The wife figured out the money/gas issue. But there is also a time constraint. I've joined a doubles league that plays on Wednesdays. So I've got to be on the road back this way by 3. But I'm in if we can work it out. I can be there as early as 9-10AM.

No prob man, I knew you said you were moving so I figured you may already be out here. Hit me up when you'll be in town.

Hey man, I'll throw with you sometime. During the week I usually only play Red Rocks because I live 5 minutes away, but on the weekend I'll travel around and play different courses. Let me know what works for you.

Ya, i have an 87 5.0, wrecked it about 3 years ago so it just sits now. was carburated with cam and nitrous. was my street race car.

i do, usually just saturdays, but football is over so sundays as well now. wedding this weekend however so sunday may not be a good day for me to play lol.