147g Wraith: doin it

[hangwind]

I've got to chime in on my progress, the work is finally paying off.

I'm 51 and have been disc golfing for 3 solid years on the weekends and during the week when I can get to it. I've got a bag set up for glow and I love the sport.

Like many, I started out flik (sidearm) and stuck to it developing it for off the tee. I am very accurate at RHFH and my distance finally maxed out at shy of 300' Sometimes I would go farther but if you challenged me, I'm pulling out a Archon and sending it fore hand at least 270' It's a cool shot but watching younger people bomb it backhand, just loong bombing hyzers or dead straight with the helix, I knew that fore hand was holding me back. Inside 100' back then and I was good, accurate backhand but no distance beyond.

I started watching videos, I took a lesson with a pro and started getting my backhand out about as far as my forehand but no accuracy and sometimes I sprayed them way right, like hanging on till next week right and dangerous if a lot of people were around. It just killed me, I just couldn't do it.

So I decided to screw the score and just stick to it. Everytime the tee demanded a backhand, I did it. Lots of people looking away, silence, my friends after a while started feeling sorry for me and would make these feighning gestures that I was getting better.

No effin way.

I didn't have any memory of what to do with my body, it was like each time I would drive differently. But I kept at it and developed a little accuracy.

I was throwing TeeBirds, Sidewinders and Valkryies and they all went high and fell off left. Sucked.

My other friends who play with me had their favorite discs, my buddy who threw just like me (left hand) was throwing a Wraith that I gave him and he was starting to straighten it out going past 300' He's an old f uck like me but he switched to backhand shortly after and developed it and really started outdriving me.

So I started to throw a Wraith, 160ish and things started going well. I figured out that I was not following through, I had that start stop like a flik and it was causing me to just try to muscle the disc. About the same time I figured the follow through, I bought a 150 class Wraith.

My game completely changed 100%

Anything downwind or even down and cross, I started outdriving the old pro in our group. Not consistently, just outdriving him now and then past his consistent distance. The disc comes out of my hand and makes a long straightish turn to the right, holds flat then comes back left at the end.

YEAH!

And I am approaching par, 57 was my last game.

BOMB the basket, putt it in.

That light weight Wraith allows me to get it up to speed and send it down there. I've sent a couple past 370' on a dead nuts flat course.

It feels good to stick to something and have it pay off, knowing that you can do it, that you can figure it out.

...and I am going to learn rollers next.

But I just don't see myself dragging a cart along. Cool if you do, not for me, yet.

A 147g Wraith is not the magic disc, it just isn't. It is magic to me as that little chip just sails, glides and goes.

Stick to it, you will find out what works. For me, it is a light weight Wraith.

I'm playing other courses too besides my two regulars, three regulars now that I think of it. I played Morely Field the other day. I played it well.

 

[prerube]

147 wraith will beat in fast. Once you start flipping it trying to get over 300ft with it you will need to replace it over and over. glad you are trying some light stuff, some guys are so caught up with max weight everything and will never try a 150 class.

 

[hangwind]

Exactly.

I've got one already on order...

I can't nearly throw a 160sh star Wraith as far as I can send that little DX.


It just won't go.

Lighter discs have their own set of problems. Super easy to flutter. I was not surprised to find my old friend (pro back in the day) pulling out a 150 class driver on downwind and dead still shots.

I feel that a light disc can help you with your form.

Thanks for ringing in, true that.

 

[hangwind]

Uuup, I forgot to weave in that I switched to an Aviar Driver, a much better Aviar for me.

Straighter.


And anything within 10' I now Turbo putt, even in some wind. I can't stand finishing that way but it is so accurate and consistent (for me) that it is now just something that I do.

I learned that from an old friend.

I really enjoy learning great techniques (spike hyzer) from friends. They see you start to grasp it and work it into your game.

It is an honor thing.

 

[dodgeball]

It's been interesting to follow your progress, as well as struggles, through your threads. Like you, I started predominantly forehand and came to the backhand later on. I worked very hard on developing the best backhand I could; one that was consistent and hopefully longer than my best forehand shot. For maybe 5-6 months, I concentrated on backhand by a ratio of something like 3:1, as compared to forehand.

The result was a much improved backhand that I could actually use off the tee where it called for it and also a strong mid-range game, including a pretty good standstill shot. The distance never really came, though it did certainly improve. In all that time, I just barely started to catch my previous forehand max distance, though in that same time, my forehand had jumped ahead even given less practice time, lol.

Ultimately I concluded that forehand was just a much more natural shot for me. To my mind, it's a simpler motion, with much less moving parts to coordinate. But the larger point is that a good dg'er should know thyself and thy weaknesses and strengths. Perhaps you really are a natural backhander and have just discovered this about your game. For me, I now know forehand is my natural shot and have pretty recently gotten back to developing drives for distance with it. When I started developing my backhand, I was still driving from a standstill throwing forehand. Now I've developed a three-step drive shot that not only has improved my distance but also the spin (and thereby stability) of these shots. Again, it's all about learning where your natural abilities are and playing to those.

Wow, sorry that was so long, lol. About the 150 class Wraith, sounds good, but it's never the disc But yeah, if it just gets u a little more distance, all other things equal, then by all means carry on. You know, maybe the other discs u use for backhand are too heavy? I tend to go lighter in general when driving backhand. I have a lightish Z Avenger that I use a lot for driving, among others.

 

[hangwind]

Nice.

I went through a phase of throwing 150 class discs before. It stepped me up in distance by showing what was WRONG about what I was doing. They are easy to flutter and that kills speed which kills distance. Throwing those light discs, I got to a place where I couldn't increase distance and then started throwing 160 class discs and my distance and accuracy improved. It was easier to throw a little heavier disc, I could put more weight into it, easier to muscle because I could feel what the disc was doing more as I released it. About that time, I decided that backhand was the way I was going to get distance. All the people playing really good disc golf threw a long backhand.

So I decided that is what I was going to do and I do things by doing.

I watched videos, snapped towels, pounded hammers but the thing that rang a bell for me was, doing it. I read it somewhere here that you just have to do it. Some people get it faster than others but doing it helped me. I just sucked it up and kept at it trying to methodically figure out what it was that I was doing wrong and then capitalizing on what I was doing right. The pro lesson helped but it also set me back by the way I was told how to hold my thumb on top of the disc. That might be something that will help later but for now, it hurt me for a while.

It's a progression. You put your time into it and it pays you back.

There are people here that I follow what they write. I've learned how to be a better disc golfer because of what I read but only when I actually mixed it in with my doing it.

I have my own ideas of what is right and wrong, how to conduct myself and the bottom line is that a backhand throw, I can get the best distance more accurately with less effort. I'm months away from a run up, I'm still in the two step or stand still right now. Soon as I develop the muscle memory for the upper body along with what is going along in the lower body, I'll be able to do a unleashing...

Rollers are next on the agenda. They are not this easy way to get max distance at my level. It's going to take some practice to get it to stand up and go downrange. You can do it forehand or backhand, but just like me, it's easier forehand but backhand is the way to go on a roller.

Thank you so much for sharing your story, I appreciated reading it and hope to read more.


I carry a Innova Delux bag, all my discs are white and finding a 150 class Wraith to back up my driver was nice, can't wait to slide it in the bag next to it's mate but more importantly, can't wait to pull it out and continue on with doing it.

p.s. My forehand has not suffered at all. If anything, I have to remember to back off. My first ace will probably come a forehand shot, I'm working hard for that not to happen, to put one in with a long long off the tee backhand.

 

[dodgeball]

As far as disc weight, this is very much in line with what I've found too. A 160g disc seems to have about the most distance potential. It's light enough to get up to cruising speed, but not so light that it magnifies release errors so much. I would say I find this applies for backhand more and that for forehand a slightly heavier disc (up to 170g or so) really doesn't hurt distance potential much.

My backhand is definitely a work in progress. One of main reasons I wanted to tackle it is precisely because it was a challenge. I think I get more satisfaction from a well thrown backhand because of where I started with it. At this point in my game, I practice almost 1:1, backhand and forehand. I'm basically happy and confident in my backhand now. I think I'm content to keep working with it and let the distance come as the last piece of the puzzle.

I'd like to get your whole view on how much the 'snap' is to a backhand throw v forehand throw. Personally, I think it's actually more important to have a good snap when talking about forehand. Because it's for the most part a shorter motion, it's more critical in getting the most out of that last little wrist action. For backhand, it seems u need a bit of coordinating your body movements in order to get max distance for a given throw. What's your take on this?

 

[hangwind]

Agreed on the flik, the snap is much more pronounced.

Before I plow into a couple of subjects between you and I, I would like to make this statement.

I am sharing my experiences with another disc golfer. I am not professing to be anything other than a enthusiast sharing notes. If someone wants to chime in, by all means you are welcome as far as I am concerned this is what it is, note sharing between a couple of guys with common experiences.

I've got a video of me fore handing a Leopard, it shows the core of my forehand technique. I do not have one of my backhand yet. I am still developing it.

I'll grab one this Sunday if I can.

I will gather my thoughts, sit down at the computer and write about what discs I use and who I follow here. I think that will be fun between the two of us.

Too much work to the iPhone I usually peck with like I am doing now.

Often, the "doing it" trumps the reading it. Sometimes a AHA moment comes and goes and I didn't recognize it at the time.

Disc golf MUST be pure fun for me, the score comes second.

 

[hangwind]

A cold (and funny) morning tee shot, a little bit off but you get the picture...



Fountain Hills, Second Tee, a 288' forehand throw (next to the A pin placement)

I'll follow up with some reference and other tangents soon enough.

 

[hangwind]

One finger forehand grip. I "pinch" the disc between my thumb and fore finger and the disc lays flat on the middle finger.

My bag, LOLZKUG patch (I am a member of this *biker gang) lays on a new to the bag light DX Wraith. Lion of Juddah patch gets me in trouble quite a bit too.

Wraith x3 (DX 2ea at 147g, Star at 164g)
Backhand off the tee, long straight with some left fade.

Leopard Star 164g
Forehand primarily or backhand straight driver or long mid.

Firebird Star 163g
Backhand (or forehand) shots that fade harder. My safe disc for over water and come back hard.

Archon Star 162g
Forehand driver. I love this disc for downhill shots for exact placement. This will probably be my first Ace disc.

Banshee (two DX 167g, Champion 167g)
Forehand primarily or primary backhand headwind disc. I have a black beat in (puddle top) DX that I am extremely accurate with a mid range using a forehand throw. I use this disc in a low flight trajectory to get under the first limbs of trees. Probably my most used disc. The Champion is a backhand primary headwind disc.

Roc DX 15g
Backhand approach shot

ION Glow soft 168g
Backhand approach shot and some putting duties.

Hydra R-Pro 173g
Floating putter. Most of the courses I play, the basket is out on a finger of land surrounded by water. This disc is a great shape no matter if it is a floater or not.

Rhyno R-Pro 176g
Windy putter. Mostly used in winter. I listened to a few guys tell me that this is a good putter for windy days, turns out their advice is good. It is really soft and just flops, dies, grips and stops.

Aviar Driver Star 175g
Putter - Driver. Backhand disc. This is probably my favorite disc in my bag. It is much straighter than any regular Aviar. I can flex this one right or left, high and lofting and or hyzer spike and die at the basket. I will often drive this one on short holes.

Next I'll gather some links of online things that have helped me and a couple of people that I have found their advice good...

*/lying A social group at DGCR that I am very fond of.

 

[hangwind]

This video helped me break down each part. I am grateful that it was made as I refer to it now and then.

Here is a thread I started in the summer of last year, CwAlbino has been a great help to me. He may not know it then or now but his work I am thankful for.

There are others like Mike C that are making videos that really have a great foundation that I find quite solid.

I'm digging glow so when it comes to the darkside: JUKESHOE is my lord Vader.

Now to answer your question.

I'd like to get your whole view on how much the 'snap' is to a backhand throw v forehand throw. Personally, I think it's actually more important to have a good snap when talking about forehand. Because it's for the most part a shorter motion, it's more critical in getting the most out of that last little wrist action. For backhand, it seems u need a bit of coordinating your body movements in order to get max distance for a given throw. What's your take on this?

The flik (sidearm or forehand) is sort of a karate chop. The shot seems to come from the lever of the arm. I don't think of it as a "stop" when I am doing it but that does come to mind. The snap in a flik is much more easy for me to understand than in a backhand.

The backhand tee shot seems more like an unwinding of a lever arm. When I think of the things that seem important, it is the follow through. Guys here talk about the disc "ripping" out of their hand, I don't get that at all. Maybe that comes with a different grip, I don't know. I use Mike C's grip and the disc comes out without any rip. My buddy is very good at it, use to compete and is an old pro, you can hear the rip, the disc leaving his hand.

When I drive backhand, you can hear my plant shoe twisting on the concrete or if you listen carefully, a little fart.



Excited to play this Sunday, it is good to meet with a couple of old friends, drink a cup of coffee before then get out and share in a world where you get to be kids again.

 

[Dsplayname]

I started out throwing max weight discs, and with horrible form too. I could barely get them out past 100 feet at first. It sucked. I had no knowledge of anything disc golf. I only knew 1 course(lenora park) existed, I only had the discs my mom bought me(frisbee discs, and I didn't know there were other discs available), and the only person to compare my game to was my mom. She was in her 40s then, left-handed, and only throws a weak hyzer about 75 feet most of the time. After years of trying out different discs, courses, and playing with other people, I've finally realized that those max weight discs were what's killing my game the most. I've been working on getting lighter discs and ones better suited to my style. My drive distances aren't anything to brag about, but if I stay focused and play smart, I can make par on most courses. Sucks that it took me the better part of a decade to figure it out, but better late than never. Also, in the last few months, I've actually been going out for field practice with my girlfriend. It's helping my game a lot as well, mostly with consistency and shot selection.
Here's my bag:

MY mom made the bag for me-it's similar to a Nutsac, but nicer.
Discs-
173g Opto Halo-headwind drive and utility disc
166g Opto Bolt-most longer drives and rollers
168g FLX Surge-for light hyzers, and straight/anny lines with a lot of fade
173g Opto Striker-most thumbers and a good straight shot, working on hyzer flip
173g GL River-jeez...what can't it do
170g ESP Hornet-overstable mid for getting at the pin around the corner
175g HPP Element-straight to right mid
173g Glow med. Ion-putter

 

[hangwind]

The only difference in my grip is that the little finger is not in the disc, it is curled tight. I use a three finger inside the rim and I bend my wrist down.

I am completely amazed as I thought I was doing this to correct bad form and then I see him describing it like this is what you have to do. Bending the wrist down is like the TURBO kicking in on distance.

The wrist bend is important, better anyone watch the video and get it from Mike.

I'm walking away from the computer now...

 

[hangwind]

I only had the discs my mom bought me(frisbee discs, and I didn't know there were other discs available), and the only person to compare my game to was my mom.

Dude, hang on to those discs your Mom bought you, NEVER give them up.

That is so gotam cool your Mom got you into the game, so cool.

I'm just not strong enough to kick a 170 class disc out there.

That bag is awesome.

You are very fortunate.

Thank you for ringing in.

 

[dodgeball]

This video helped me break down each part. I am grateful that it was made as I refer to it now and then.

Here is a thread I started in the summer of last year, CwAlbino has been a great help to me. He may not know it then or now but his work I am thankful for.

There are others like Mike C that are making videos that really have a great foundation that I find quite solid.

I'm digging glow so when it comes to the darkside: JUKESHOE is my lord Vader.

Now to answer your question.



The flik (sidearm or forehand) is sort of a karate chop. The shot seems to come from the lever of the arm. I don't think of it as a "stop" when I am doing it but that does come to mind. The snap in a flik is much more easy for me to understand than in a backhand.

The backhand tee shot seems more like an unwinding of a lever arm. When I think of the things that seem important, it is the follow through. Guys here talk about the disc "ripping" out of their hand, I don't get that at all. Maybe that comes with a different grip, I don't know. I use Mike C's grip and the disc comes out without any rip. My buddy is very good at it, use to compete and is an old pro, you can hear the rip, the disc leaving his hand.

When I drive backhand, you can hear my plant shoe twisting on the concrete or if you listen carefully, a little fart.



Excited to play this Sunday, it is good to meet with a couple of old friends, drink a cup of coffee before then get out and share in a world where you get to be kids again.

Yep, all good posters and I've learned from each of them. But when it comes to overall technical knowledge and also technique breakdown/analysis, there is none better than Sidewinder22 for my money! I have to say that some of what he says goes over my head, but after I read it 3 or 4 times in different places, it starts to sink in.

I've never gotten the 'stop' that people talk about when talking about the flick shot. Frankly, I think that could only lead to bad things. I think it's one of those things that's gotten into the DG lexicon even though it has very little basis in reality.

I do agree that the snap in a flick is easier to feel. Likewise, it maybe easier to lose on any given day (at least for me). Just yesterday, I couldn't hit a forehand to save my life! Maybe my timing was a bit off or perhaps my hand and wrist never really warmed up as it was a cool day. Conversely, the backhand was clicking and good all day, so go figure. It occurs to me that backhand probably does have the potential for more consistency. That is once u get the big parts figured out and burn them into muscle memory. But since it depends less on wrist snap right at the end, which depends so much timing, it's better for overall consistency.

 

[hangwind]

Links man! Can you send on a few links to Sidewinder22's stuff you are referencing?

I would like that.

Stop. Hmm, it's so subjective...

I know that the game is mental on one level. One of my friends, he has something on his mind, his game falls apart. He is better than I am if it's all good. But I'm getting better and I want to get better more than he does (paying for lessons, research here, field work now and then) so now when he has an off day, I'm crushing him. I have to be careful, I don't give him the business about it, I just smile inside.

We compete between each other. I don't mind getting beat. I would rather get crushed than barely beat. It drives me to improve. The last thing I want is to get stale in the game and bored.

Please, post a couple of links. I'm always looking for the good info, just like you.

Nice chatting with you. If you are ever in the area, let's play.

 

[dodgeball]

Links man! Can you send on a few links to Sidewinder22's stuff you are referencing?

I would like that.

Stop. Hmm, it's so subjective...

I know that the game is mental on one level. One of my friends, he has something on his mind, his game falls apart. He is better than I am if it's all good. But I'm getting better and I want to get better more than he does (paying for lessons, research here, field work now and then) so now when he has an off day, I'm crushing him. I have to be careful, I don't give him the business about it, I just smile inside.

We compete between each other. I don't mind getting beat. I would rather get crushed than barely beat. It drives me to improve. The last thing I want is to get stale in the game and bored.

Please, post a couple of links. I'm always looking for the good info, just like you.

Nice chatting with you. If you are ever in the area, let's play.

Sidewinder lives in the analysis/critique subforum and posts on most videos that people submit, offering analysis and tips. Check it out if u haven't yet. Like I touched on before, some of what he says goes a bit over my head, but it does seem to sink into my thick skull over time.

Here's a recent thread where I borrowed a tip he gave to another poster. I had a follow-up query and he came back with an in-depth response with videos to boot!

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51460

 

[hangwind]

Cool, I'm checking it out now.

Thanks for the link.

I played Fountain Hills today and got a few drives over 300' and a couple of downhill shots, I threw farther on them than I have ever thrown. I am starting to make my second, non putter shot go away and that is what I want.

Drive, putt.

I am in a transition where I am primarily driving backhand now and my choices at the tee are different than they were and it is making the game cool as it ever was. I'm seeing different lines and I'm now thinking of the roller shot that I'll start working on in a few weeks. Rollers, a long low flight with the disc biting in on it's edge, standing up and rolling waaay past where you could ever throw it and still rolling, turning a little left towards the pin slowing down and falling over... Out here, the grass is perfect for it and it's not just a flat ground shot either. It's cool, you pick out what you want to do, look at the mechanics, start weaving it into your game while sharpening what you know, giving energy to where you are weak, riding on your strengths all while smiling inside having fun outside with a few friends.

This was fun, thanks.

 

[Jukeshoe]

Have you killed the got damn dog yet? ;p

 

[hangwind]

LOL, now that was funny.