2010 USDGC

[1978]

Yes, they are playing the course under the same rules. I don't have any problem with the rules of THAT game but it's not the same game as disc golf. Players expect to get ratings and I'm not sure you can combine results from this USDGC game and what we have been rating. It's like combining basketball scoring stats from before the 3-pt shot was created versus after. It's pretty much the same game but would you consider it fair to combine stats and compare players' shooting stats and skills before versus after?

Ratings are based on your play at that event with those rules against those competitors. The ratings would hold up, in wind, rain, snow, OB lines, Stroke and distance, because all players are playing the same rules. The ratings right now are about right and will average out after 4 rounds. The best players will be about where their ratings are on average. I think your arguement would only be valid if the OB rules were removed halfway through a round.

Ratings aren't effected by the course or rules, much. Just score to par.

 

[1978]

Yes, they are playing the course under the same rules. I don't have any problem with the rules of THAT game but it's not the same game as disc golf. Players expect to get ratings and I'm not sure you can combine results from this USDGC game and what we have been rating. It's like combining basketball scoring stats from before the 3-pt shot was created versus after. It's pretty much the same game but would you consider it fair to combine stats and compare players' shooting stats and skills before versus after?

Not even a comparison that you can make. Offensive basketball players are evaluated on shot % and scoring, those metrics would totally be effected ( and they do combine them already as the 3 pt line changes) Basketball players don't get a "rating" based on the other players playing. Using your analogy, Ray Allen would be just as highly rated if the rim was shrunk to 1" dia larger than the ball. He is just a better shooter than someone else. Probably technically someone who could dunk would then be better "rated" but anyways you can't compare shot making, fairways hit, or other stats you can give a percentage to with a DG players rating which is created from how other people who have ratings play compared to you. Its the most fair ranking system in any sport.

 

[Peterb]

Maybe he should find the land, petition a town, present to the local enviromental board, build and design this course. Avery is never happy. He is flat out not as good as much of the top 15-20 players anymore. He has resorted to whining about the course rather than becoming a better/different disc golfer. You still see -35 type scores from his competitors. He wants wide open courses so he can bomb and is a chronic whiner. He is on the PDGA board now, right? I can't wait to see the event that he does all the work to plan and set up since he is so upset. 71 players shot better than him. I guess it is just the course...its never his throws. A 977 rated player figured out how to shoot 7 strokes better.

Ok...Nate also wasn't too pleased either (tying his gal Val), but he's been close to the top all year.

I'll agree that Avery has fallen off the top and it does come across as whining. But many are complaining about the rule not being true disc golf. They're also upset that the event is only gonna happen every other year in the States...so perhaps a whole lotta complaining going on.

 

[adh56]

Just heard Philo Brathwaite shot 59 so you can put good scores out there. Just gotta be patient and score when you can.

He did indeed, after shooting an 82 yesterday. I guess he made some adjustments :thmbup:

 

[NothinButChing]

got a sweet Nuke with USDGC stamp on it

 

[Cgkdisc]

Ratings are based on your play at that event with those rules against those competitors. The ratings would hold up, in wind, rain, snow, OB lines, Stroke and distance, because all players are playing the same rules. The ratings right now are about right and will average out after 4 rounds. The best players will be about where their ratings are on average. I think your arguement would only be valid if the OB rules were removed halfway through a round.

In theory, the numbers will look good on the surface. But the throw and distance rule is like a new form of hazard on the course like the difference between all wooded versus all open courses. Some people play better in the open and some in the woods but most courses are relatively balanced in mixing those elements so it has averaged out in the ratings.

Maybe a few course have a throw and distance penalty on maybe one hole. But this element is not part of the core design lexicon for the vast majority of courses included in the ratings. If the basket target zone were changed to half the height and half the width of the current basket, it would be the same problem comparing apple to oranges for ratings. The better players will still shoot better on average. But within players of the same rating, you would see differences due to the new feature whether it be a basket change or the throw and distance penalty.

 

[1978]

Yea, its a combination of things. But Pro's need to understand that Am's are the near future of the sport. Giving out merch does a lot of things.

It sells more discs (to the event giving out the merch).

Redeeming merch at Retail when the event or club purchased it at Wholesale funds local clubs and helps the growth of the sport with maintenance, upgrades, and new courses. One new course in a town without one grows DG more than any combination of pros does (at this time)

Pro earnings go out in cash and are partially funded by Ams and the more Pro's the less the club makes.

Running, and sponsoring another giant Am event and a larger US doubles next year is easier and better in Innova's opinion.

99.9% of the country wouldnt know the difference between me or Avery. A very good percentage has heard of disc golf but hasn't played or bought discs. This is the market Innova is targeting. Pro's just arent well known enough to justify all the work that goes into the USDGC every year.

 

[skottyb]

Yea, its a combination of things. But Pro's need to understand that Am's are the near future of the sport. Giving out merch does a lot of things.

It sells more discs (to the event giving out the merch).

Redeeming merch at Retail when the event or club purchased it at Wholesale funds local clubs and helps the growth of the sport with maintenance, upgrades, and new courses. One new course in a town without one grows DG more than any combination of pros does (at this time)

Pro earnings go out in cash and are partially funded by Ams and the more Pro's the less the club makes.

Running, and sponsoring another giant Am event and a larger US doubles next year is easier and better in Innova's opinion.

99.9% of the country wouldnt know the difference between me or Avery. A very good percentage has heard of disc golf but hasn't played or bought discs. This is the market Innova is targeting. Pro's just arent well known enough to justify all the work that goes into the USDGC every year.

Your exactly right.. Pros must realize this will benefit them in the long run, as more exposure can/might make the sport much bigger increasing purse sizes.

 

[Peterb]

completely agree. More courses = more exposure for the sport and the pros.

 

[bigt]

How much money does Innova put into this event?

Any guess's?

 

[1978]

In other news...check out the scores. Looks like almost everyone is playing WAY better and adjusting to the course. There are a lot of people who are shooting 10,15,or 20 strokes better...Wiggins... Very few have gone in the reverse direction, and it is still windy out.

Seems like a lot of players didnt have the right game plan going in but now have adjusted and are playing much better. The guys at the top were better prepared...read some of Will's comments. He knew the rounds would be tough and layed up 100' on 17 and will continue the rest of the tournament.

 

[1978]

How much money does Innova put into this event?

Any guess's?

If you include down time for 3 weeks of set up by employees, players packs, paid entry for pros, added cash, food for volunteers, gasoline, rental fees for carts and portojohns, mulch, rope, string, caddy books, flyers, artwork, advertising, ice, photography, and other things; I would bet its over 30-40K. They even replaced a bunch of the baskets this year...they don't really make that much money on them... thats like $200-250 a pop for them.

 

[bigt]

Myself I think 30-40K used to put on 20 events the years they do not put on the USDGC being much better for the sport.

 

[tboese]

Anybody know a better server to view the event live on? The discgolfplanet tv stream apparently doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the 1300 people watching.

I'm not complaining, just wondering if someone else knows a live server that doesn't skip and freeze as much.

 

[Dave242]

Flip, and nearly any course, for that matter, could work with all those artificial o.b. lines placed everywhere. Winthorp regular, with the exception of some water holes, is not THAT intimidating of a course.
Forcing players to hit 10 foot wide spaces on every hole can be done anywhere.

Peterb's point was that championship courses should be on natural courses. This is what he said:

At the championship level, I believe that a course should naturally be tough enough to force the players to make constant risk reward decisions where bad shots will get punished and good shots rewarded...all without OB. The circus that the USDGC has become is unfortunate, and I'd like to see the championship switch to different world class courses around the county: flip

Peterb - I was not meaning to be a jerk with my response. Sorry that I came across that way. I do find it amusing that you feel Flip meets the criteria you mention for world class players.....that's all.

 

[Thumber]

I think the golden rope of OB is hokey. I could build a "championship" level course in the Wlamart Parking lot if you gave me enough rope

I think the tourny should be played on a course with enough natural challenge to keep scores down

 

[Cgkdisc]

Looks like almost everyone is playing WAY better and adjusting to the course. There are a lot of people who are shooting 10,15,or 20 strokes better...

However, at the moment, the SSA is still a little higher than the 75 SSA yesterday. It will start coming down once the heavy hitters finish. I'm thinking the SSA might end up at 74 today.

 

[1978]

These players tear up any current course.

 

[Thumber]

These players tear up any current course.

so then design is the issue

 

[Cgkdisc]

Easier putting than BG is the problem in terms of low scores among top players in relation to par, not so much course design up to the basket.