A rules question

[Three Putt]

Wedgies count. If it falls out and hits the ground before you retrieve it, it doesn't count.

Not to argue with the all learned Three Putt, but there was a thread on the PDGA site that suggested that once the disc had come to rest the throw was completed so it wouldn't matter if the disc fell. I can't find the post now but the relevent question was about a disc hanging from the top ring. Since the ring isn't a catching device of the basket it isn't a completed hole. But what if a gust of wind came and blew the disc as you were walking up to it. And the answer is that if something moves a disc after it has come to rest it is to be returned to it's previous location. It defined "at rest" to consensus of the group. So it would seem that the idea of getting there before it falls is a myth if it is still moving you wait until it's done if it is done moving the hole is complete. I will look for the post cuz it had the pertinent ruls quoted if you find something that suggests I'm wrong just keep it to yourself. lol j/k

The PDGA rulebook is a vague and mystifying thing, so there could be an argument about semantics.

However, one of the enduring LMAO moments in disc golf is when a guy nails an approach from 100+ ft and it sticks in the side...there is the momentary smile, followed by the realization of his situation and the inevitable "Haul Ass" to the basket to grab it before it falls.

If they change that rule, they have no sense of humor.

 

[ERicJ]

The way I read the rule below is that if you wedge it and it falls before you remove it then it does not count. You need one more stroke to hole-out.

803.13.B Disc Entrapment Devices
In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.

ERic

 

[ERicJ]

803.07.B Interference
If a disc at rest on the playing surface or supported by the target is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location [...]

I can see how that rule might be interpreted as "if it falls out it still counts", but I think that since it falls under the category of "interference" that means something other than gravity interfered and caused it to fall. In the interference case it counts as good. But if it falls on its own, seems to me like, you're out of luck.

ERic

 

[ERicJ]

What if a disc is thrown hard and hits the outside of the basket (where normally it would fall down to the ground), but it gets wedged into the basket? Does that count?

Wedgies count. If it falls out and hits the ground before you retrieve it, it doesn't count.

haha interesting. What if you're about to grab it, it falls out, and you catch it before it hits the ground?

Oddly enough if you caught/touched the falling disc you should probably get two penalty strokes!

You have not holed-out until, per Rule 800 Definitions Holed-Out: [...] A player has "holed-out" after the remove of the at rest disc from the chains or entrapment area of a disc entrapment device [...].

If the disc is falling, i.e. not at rest, you can't touch it to hole-out.

If you touch the moving disc the penalty strokes come from Rule 803.07.C Interference:
Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, [...] other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

If you didn't catch it you'd play from where it stopped after it fell/rolled.

If you'd first marked the lie (under the basket) with your mini then it wouldn't matter that it fell since it'd already been marked and there'd be no penalty for catching it.

At least that's how I read the rules....

ERic

 

[Donovan]

If you'd first marked the lie (under the basket) with your mini then it wouldn't matter that it fell since it'd already been marked and there'd be no penalty for catching it.

At least that's how I read the rules....

ERic

You are so clever bro!

 

[brokenfixed]

Eric, Id never wanna play a round with you...Cant even spit on my own shoe without worrying about penalty strokes...haha

 

[ERicJ]

If you'd first marked the lie (under the basket) with your mini then it wouldn't matter that it fell since it'd already been marked and there'd be no penalty for catching it.

You are so clever bro!

Clever, maybe.

Realistic, uh-uh.

Marking the lie would acknowledge that you think the wedgie is going to fall out, which if you did... why wouldn't you just get there and remove it as fast as you could. Instead wasting time marking the lie, anticipating taking another stroke to hole out, that's just stupid. But... if anyone did do that it'd save them the catching penalty and rolling distance if it did fall.

ERic

 

[mcdavis17]

I'm with ya biker....I've done it more than that. I've talked to people "higher up"...with Innova that are connected with PDGA, and supposedly, they are discussing a rules change that would allow that to count. I don't know what the deal is why they haven't yet, if they are trying to get the legal wording, or what. But EVERY disc golfer I talked with on this agrees....that should be in. After all it is supported by the basket, within the circumference, and not on the ground.

Here's the problem I see with that -- some baskets, such as the Innova DISCatcher, would not appear to be as friendly to a top-landing shot as something like the MACH III, which has the number plate on top. On the courses I've played that have a basket without a number plate, 90+% of the shots that hit the top of the basket skip out, sometimes rather dramatically. Courses with something like the MACH III, I'd say about 1/3 of the shots are stopped on the top by the number plate, and if it doesn't stay on top, it usually just bounces off and falls very close for a drop-in shot.

I'd say leave the rule as is -- if it's on the top, it doesn't count -- wedgies, chain-hangers, and my favorite, the "around-the-world-no-chainer" (disc runs around the edge of the basket, teetering between in and out, before dropping in without touching the chain) are good, though.

 

[ERicJ]

The homemade basket on #1 on Erickson/Payne Home DGC will often let a disc landing on top fall through into the basket. That almost makes up for its tendancy to reject off-center putts that other baskets would usually catch.

ERic

 

[PhattD]

Once again the PDGA site is down so I can't find that thread. However Eric was kind enough to quote the pertinent rules and the key is "at rest" If you have to run up to the basket to grab the disc before it falls it is not at rest it is falling. The question then becomes how do you determine if a disc is "at rest"? If a disc is on the edge of a drop off and falls right as you are walking up is that considered moved after being at rest? Did it fall because it was slowly falling the whole time? Or did a slight gust of wind start it moving again after it had come to rest. Same questions apply to the disc in the basket. The answer, and this is where I want to quote the pertinent sources, is that it is considered at rest by the consensus of the group playing. If everyone says "yup it's done moving" then it's a finished hole no matter what happens after that. If one person says "no I still see it moving" and you run up and grab it before it falls then you have incurred a penalty for interfering with a disc in motion. If you think about it this is much more reasonable than expecting someone to go tearing off done the course trying to grab his disc while the rest of the group is still trying to shoot from 200' out. Same thing with the drop off scenario.

 

[teejw13]

we count it if it lands on top if it a basket without tee numbers. if its got the numbers too easy

 

[cc0049]

Why doesn't it count as a basket in basketball when the ball gets wedged between the rim and the backboard. Just because that is the rule. It has to go through the hoop. It is the same in disc golf. That is just the rule. If they changed the rule, they are just making it that much easier to hole out. If you get your disc on top of the basket, it is not because you did it intentionally and shouldn't count as holing out.

 

[Three Putt]

Here is the thing...If your disc is resting on top, you missed the putt. You putt too high and missed it, end of conversation.

If you have a wedgie, it is possible that you made the putt, the disc hit the center pole and bounced back and wedgied on the way back out. So since it is possible to have a good putt wedgie, and in a lot of cases nobody will actually see how it happened, wedgies are OK.

I think we can all agree that "Wedgies Count" is a better rule than "Wedgies count unless the wedgie occurred from the disc striking the outside of the basket attachment and was witnessed by two or more players on the hole."

 

[Midnightbiker]

Is the Disc warped now?

No , its a very soft "Soft Magnet". The disc is fine.

 

[PhattD]

Here is the thing...If your disc is resting on top, you missed the putt. You putt too high and missed it, end of conversation.

If you have a wedgie, it is possible that you made the putt, the disc hit the center pole and bounced back and wedgied on the way back out. So since it is possible to have a good putt wedgie, and in a lot of cases nobody will actually see how it happened, wedgies are OK.

I think we can all agree that "Wedgies Count" is a better rule than "Wedgies count unless the wedgie occurred from the disc striking the outside of the basket attachment and was witnessed by two or more players on the hole."

Don't forget they have to be standing on one leg and facing south.

 

[CBass]

I would agree that it does not make a whole lot of sense. I don't believe that the pdga rulebook gives a definite reason as to why it does not count, just stating that it does not and that the disc must come to rest inside the chains and/or basket. If you get a disc stuck in the side of the basket, that counts as long as you remove it before it falls or gets knocked out.

 

[borndasaur]

Dug out an old thread about the "DROT no good/wedgie good" question. Didn't see the clear explanation other than the old "that is the rule". Here goes: the original targets were trees, poles or other objects sticking up out of the ground that were marked in some way with a lower and upper line. A throw that hit the target between the lines was good. Many debates (some probably fueled by alcohol or other substances) ensued and the solution was the invention of the modern disc golf basket. Think of the lines on the old tree as the top of the chains and the bottom of the basket. Since the DROT did not hit between the lines, it is out. The wedgie is a solution to the question of what is considered "at rest within the catching device". Clearly, this would be hitting above the lower line on the tree but the addition of "at rest within the catching device" eliminates bouncing off the basket or brushing the chains. Since the wedgie has part of the disc "at rest within the catching device" it counts, as long as the group agrees or an official rules the disc to be at rest.

Now, who has too much time on their hands to think about this stuff?

 

[garublador]

The guess I've always heard is that DROT does not count because on a tree target that shot cannot happen...can't land on top of target painted on a tree.

Then it's a bad replication of a tree. IMO, inventing a rule to compensate for a bad design is not a good process. It should either count as in or the tech standards for baskets should be changed.

 

[discflinger]

Ed did have domed tops on some of the early baskets. We have some here in the Fort. If you can get one to rest on top of one of those, I'd give ya the put.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

Eric, Id never wanna play a round with you...Cant even spit on my own shoe without worrying about penalty strokes...haha

spitter= stroke