addicted amateur trying to improve putting

[Jar-El]

This is my 1st post so be kind.

I'm happy enough with my driving (~170g TL & Valkyrie), mid-range (~175g Roc+ & well-loved DX Roc), and approach (~170g JK Aviar) game for now, but unless I land 5' away from the basket*, the JK adventure begins...

~10' usually goes in OK, but is far from automatic
10-20' is sometimes a floaty, wobbly, late fade adventure
20'+ tossing semi-accurate touch anhyzers that sometimes go in

* This happens more & more as I improve, thus masking the putting problem, and cutting down on practice opportunities

I recently discovered this glorious website (thank you map browser!) and found some helpful videos, so I'm now experimenting with my form & grip to find the right technique for me.
-- TRAJECTORY: Pitching it in is fun from <10' & you can't miss long which is a plus when you suck at putting, but I would rather make a consistent accurate run at the basket every time, no matter what the distance.
-- STANCE: Straddle stance feels (& looks) weird so I prefer staggered with my lead foot pointing to the basket so I can shift my weight back & then forward.
-- GRIP: I've tried one version of the fan grip and Climo's stack fork grip. I'm not sure if I can get the spin I need to keep a 20' shot from wobbling with a fan grip(?), but I'm going to experiment with my pointer finger placement on the fan and try some more wrist snap.
http://www.innovadiscs.com/home/daves-tips/daves-grip-tips.html
-- TECHNIQUE: I'm still unsure how anyone can simply "push" the disc in from 15'-20' by using their lower body and popping their arm with little wrist spin, sooooo...
I guess I'm going to be a staggered stance standing, modified fan gripping, spin putter who uses his lower body (more than I used to) and may pitch & Wilt Chamberlin in a few for fun? Obviously I just need to practice, practice, practice, experiment, and then practice, practice, practice some more, but any guidance/advice or videos you could share would be most appreciated. I'm still unsure where the disc should start, where it should be released, arm motion, etc.

Obviously a magical disc is not the cure, but I decided to buy two identical putters with less fade than the JK Aviar, so I could throw another shot if I missed the first one, and have two putters to work with at the practice basket. Tonight I gripped a bunch of putters and picked up two 172g Millennium Omega in AP plastic (1.11 -- whatever that means) on the advice of the PlayItAgain in-house pro who said it was essentially a Pro plastic micro-bead Aviar so it would fade less than my JK Aviar, be more durable, stiffer, but still grippy. You approve? (He also said he "just got them in" which looks like it might be salesman BS since it appears they don't even make the AP plastic anymore, so he must have been trying to unload them) I know all you throw-beasts like to talk about how your putters drive off the tee while you sink your 300' aces, but I obviously care more about the short-range performance of these putters.

Superfluous background info: I wish I discovered disc golf and this website back in high school in the late 90's -- so many prime frolfing years wasted! After getting hooked a few years back (suggested by an ultimate frisbee teammate and inspired by the "Summer of George") I've been playing as often as possible. I live a 10 minute bike-ride away from a nice wooded course, Cedar Hills in Raleigh NC and I've played nearly all of the courses within an hour drive multiple times.

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[GLong]

is your index finger against the outside of the rim or underneath on the bead?

check out the video in this thread: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51237

whether you are a spin or push putter, i think this video will help. regardless of style you want to get good wrist extension and open your hand with the putting motion. it's not really about getting a strong snap from your wrist on putts in the range that you are describing. it's more of a 'quick' motion rather than a 'strong' one if that makes any sense. and yes, you definitely can get enough spin from a fan grip on a 20' putt.

also - regardless of technique, you shouldn't be missing many 10'ers. make sure you are consciously aiming at something every time you line up a putt. many people like to pick a link in the chains and try to hit that. aim small, miss small. also - figure out whatever your routine is for putting and try to do the same thing every time. every putt is worth one stroke. don't take the short ones for granted.

 

[Jar-El]

Appreciate the response.

The short answer to all of this putting discussion is: whatever works for you.

That video definitely reminded me to visualize, focus, and breathe while I putt (something I often forget), but I won't adopt the disc-less full-speed mock putts anytime soon. Why not do the same thing he does, but with the disc in your hand so you get your grip right and feel the weight? I feel like that is more important than practicing letting go, right? I was not doing full-speed mock putts before my shot, so I will try that (with the disc in my hand, ha) -- at most I was rocking a bit to get my stance & weight distribution settled. I know you should't care what you look like out there, but if I saw some dude doing that and then missing a putt, I would chuckle.

With my fan grip I have tried putting my index finger on the inside of the rim, gripping the plate, but not on the outside of the rim yet. Still have some more experimentation to do as I only got serious about improving my putting recently.

I do think I've been in a sub-par mental state while putting (ranging from caring too much to not caring at all) and I only recently started aiming for a bit right of the pole -- picking out a single link seems ambitious when you don't really know what you're doing with your technique (the perils of being self-taught and not playing with better players) or where the disc is going.

 

[AdamCaudle]

The absolutely key factor is confidence. Make sure you believe every putt is going in, and I guarantee you'll see more hitting center chains. Every time I miss something within 25-30 feet, it's because I am apprehensive about putting. Get into a consistent routine, focus on the chains, and believe it right into the basket. With that said I'm not disregarding proper form or technique, just emphasizing the importance of confidence.

 

[bholy08]

Buy a basket and practice 30 min everyday. Watch the Mark Elliis putting confidence program video and grow from there.

Welcome to the site and best of luck!

 

[timothyasteele]

Welcome to DGCR!

I'm mostly a push putter (Feldberg style) and two things that finally clicked for me recently were to make sure the pressure on the disc is mostly between your middle finger and your thumb, and when you finally commit to the putt, make sure and accelerate straight through and not be apprehensive. As he says, paint the pole, but there needs to be a bit of a pop upon release to keep it level and straight at the target. This is important from 10+ feet out, but most important 20+ to keep the line and not fade out.

Tim S.

 

[Jar-El]

Adam: Agreed. I think once I settle on a technique that works and see some success, I will have an easier time with confidence. [Greensboro, eh? One of my best friends lives in Burlington NC down the road from Cedarock Park. They read in the paper that you lucky bastards are getting a 3rd course on the premises after they bought 56 more acres. Shot a -7 at Wellspring the last time I played there, a personal best. Who needs to learn how to putt when you can slam dunk your Roc for the birdie? OK, that just sounded cocky -- I was playing out of my mind.]

BHoly: Instead of a basket can I just buy a pole, wrap it with rope, and mark off the upper & lower limits of a typical basket? I don't think anyone would appreciate the sound of chains splashing. 30 minutes of putting practice a day was probably possible before I made a baby.

Tim: Good tip with the pressure and putting with authority. After floating a few too many putts way past the basket for some double bogeys when I was starting out, I've got too tentative often laying up for par when I could go for it, and I think that carries over with the short putts because I often miss short by wimping out.

 

[Horsman]

Im going to agree big time with the confidence thing. If missing the putt even pops into your head then restart your pre putt routine and put making the putt in your head.
For me what helped a ton was just practicing everyday. I went from being like you to a very confident putter in a summer. Everyday before work in the summer I was practicing putting only for about an hour focusing on staying inside the circle. I just naturally worked the kinks out of my putting and found what really worked for me, and if I was putting and I got tired of putting then I started to do the trick putts that you might run into every once and a while on the course just to change it up.

 

[Jar-El]

Now that I'm committed to improving, I know I will get better. I used to show up the course and just tee off -- now I enjoy taking my time and throwing a bunch of putts before I start, and maybe a few after.

Thanks for all the responses so far.

 

[bholy08]

Buddy I know what you mean about baby...my wife and I are loving our month old baby. My practice time has diminished but I have figured out I can get 30 min a day buy splitting it up. I will putt for 5 min as I leave the house to go somewhere. There are plenty of other little times you can squeeze in a few putts.
You got close neighbors or something? A skillshot basket is pretty quiet and has never bothered anyone around me

 

[notroman]

Here, Jar-El. I made this for you so you can hopefully better understand of what this "pop" is. Excuse the quality and all, I kinda made this on the fly as a response to your thread.

edit - embedding not working so here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS57LJmTpPU&hd=1

 

[Jar-El]

bHoly: Didn't realize practice baskets were quiet -- never tried one out. I think I may try the pole & rope idea sometime. My property is definitely large enough.

notro: Thanks for the video -- that made things MUCH clearer. I definitely didn't see the ending coming when you tossed a disc into a basket in your living room. :clap:

I'm excited to get putting already!

 

[GLong]

The short answer to all of this putting discussion is: whatever works for you.

That video definitely reminded me to visualize, focus, and breathe while I putt (something I often forget), but I won't adopt the disc-less full-speed mock putts anytime soon. Why not do the same thing he does, but with the disc in your hand so you get your grip right and feel the weight? I feel like that is more important than practicing letting go, right? I was not doing full-speed mock putts before my shot, so I will try that (with the disc in my hand, ha) -- at most I was rocking a bit to get my stance & weight distribution settled.

With my fan grip I have tried putting my index finger on the inside of the rim, gripping the plate, but not on the outside of the rim yet. Still have some more experimentation to do as I only got serious about improving my putting recently.

I do think I've been in a sub-par mental state while putting (ranging from caring too much to not caring at all) and I only recently started aiming for a bit right of the pole -- picking out a single link seems ambitious when you don't really know what you're doing with your technique (the perils of being self-taught and not playing with better players) or where the disc is going.

very true, there are certain things that are 'good' and 'bad' when it comes to putting but ultimately you have to find things that feel comfortable because confidence is the most important component. there is no perfect grip or style, just better ways to do whatver works for you.

i would recommend trying to discless mock putts again... and not dismissing advice given to you by someone without giving it a good chance. i've been playing for almost 4 years, i practice putting basically every day, and that little technique has done more to improve my accuracy/consistency than just about anything else.

you probably watched the video, laughed, and didn't watch the rest of it. if you had, you would understand that 'letting go' is the most important part of the putt. getting good wrist extension and getting your hand/fingers cleanly off the disc is the most important thing when it comes to accuracy and consistency, regardless of putting style. and you can't get a feel for that with a disc in your hand.

i would try putting your index finger on the rim with the first joint (from the fingertip) on or close to the bottom edge. it sounds like you have a lot of your index finger under the disc. i would not recommend putting with your finger on the outside edge of the rim. it gives you less spin and less control of nose angle.

picking a link or some kind of target isn't really ambitious at all. it's the one thing you have some kind of control over at this point. i find it hard to believe that your technique is SO bad that you can't hit 10'ers consistently. you probably just aren't aiming at anything. you can't just throw the disc at the basket. it doesn't matter if you hit the link or not. cool if you do, but the idea is that as long as you're pretty close to that spot, it will go in. 'aim small, miss small'.

 

[pfpro]

Make sure you watch the local coupon clipper. $5 off anything at crossroads Play-It-Again. You can get a sweet disc for cheap a few times a year!

 

[Jar-El]

Glong: Good tip with the index finger placement. You are right, I had my index finger under the disc too much, and my pinky wasn't touching the rim either. Combine that with a lack of focus, finger pop, and lower body spring & weight shif, and you get some pretty wobbly looking pitch & spin putts. That's why I was having better luck spin putting with Climo's stacked fork grip. I really appreciate the personalized advice -- this is giving me a lot of things to try out.

pfpro: thanks! I live right around the corner from the PlayItAgain on Falls of the Nizzy.

 

[Mr. America]

Here, Jar-El. I made this for you so you can hopefully better understand of what this "pop" is. Excuse the quality and all, I kinda made this on the fly as a response to your thread.

edit - embedding not working so here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS57LJmTpPU&hd=1

Nice video here! I am going to go out and try to work on this right here as it's something I think I've been struggling with.

 

[JSurmann]

Welcome to the site!

I found when I was first starting out, I couldn't find a putter I liked. Now I have upwards of 15 putters in about 8 different models. Finally found one or two I liked and stuck with them. Now I have 5 of each of my main putters. This helps with muscle memory for me so I dont just throw one or two and then go pick them up.

Before I got a practice basket, I used a small bush about the size of a basket to practice with. Ghetto I know but it worked for a while.

Best of luck to you with your putting and as everyone else said, confidence is key.

 

[Jar-El]

JSurmann: What do you putt with & why?

 

[jlh900]

i wish i could afford a basket ... i think it would help me out alot

 

[Skinny Disc Guy]

Here, Jar-El. I made this for you so you can hopefully better understand of what this "pop" is. Excuse the quality and all, I kinda made this on the fly as a response to your thread.

edit - embedding not working so here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS57LJmTpPU&hd=1

I know what I'm practicing when I get home! This helped me immensly seeing this video. I've got "lame duck" putts and really couldn't figure out a proper grip on them. I'm going to try this and see if it works for me!