An open letter to travelling reviewers...

[scarpfish]

And I'm not going to name the individual, as I don't believe in these episodes where we stone someone with red thumbs for having obtuse tastes in the desirable disc golf experience, and the reviewer that inspired me to write this commentary is hardly the only offender. Anyways, the gist of my point is...

Sometimes, its best just to not submit a review.

Yeah, I get it. You invested a lot of gas money to get there. You may never pass that way again, and you want to document the experience. Totally, I get it. Back when life was a little more free and happy going, I was one of you.

But let's be real. We both play a sport that 85% of the time, has no entry fee. When you are not paying specifically to access the venue, you can only expect so much in regards to the conditions you might encounter when playing a particular track. Sometimes, overgrowth hasn't been addressed. Sometimes you hit the bad part of the mowing cycle. Sometimes the foliage isn't in on the trees yet, and these are things that can happen when the weather is normal.

Speaking of the weather, it isn't always normal. Around where I live over the last month, it has been anything but. May was one of our wettest months on record. We have reservoirs statewide and in neighboring states that have had to do emergency water releases. Major highways have been shut down due to floodwaters. Some towns have had to have evacuations.

Like many places, a number of our disc golf courses are in flood plain areas that aren't much good for other things, and as a result courses built on those pieces of land aren't doing so good. Even on courses that are still playable, the soil is saturated, parts of those courses are muddy and as a result, the local parks department hasn't been mowing for awhile. So yeah, when that hasn't happened for a few weeks, you can expect taller than normal grass.

The thing is, had you arrived 30 days sooner, or 90 days later after everything has been cleaned up, these issues you're carping about like they're a permanent fixture of that course, wouldn't be there. Do you honestly expect the red carpet to be rolled out for you, when it isn't even rolled out for the folks who play there all the time? If a course in your neck of the woods had just had an episode of flooding, storm damage, fire or some other issue that was probably an acute matter, and someone from out of state, ignorant to the situation, came by and complained about it not being in impeccable shape, how would you feel?

I too have come across courses where there was unkempt grass, standing water, chiggers from too much standing water, branches and sometimes entire trees down. Parks departments and nature can only clean this so fast, and for a niche activity that they likely don't make any revenue from, their incentive to expedite things isn't exactly a priority. It has been that way for as long as I've been playing. Those of us playing long enough have made peace with it. Its a price many of us are willing to pay to keep disc golf cheap and accessible.

I know I can't stop you, hell, I'm not even going to implore you do so, but in all honesty, its just better in some cases to tick a course onto your played list, and let any judgment of it go. You honestly didn't get to experience it during reasonably normal conditions. That's not its fault. You're welcome to keep your notes in case you do pass that way again to see if that acute situation has been dealt with.

Just my $.02. Agree if you may, disagree if you must, discuss if you wish to. This isn't the first rant regarding this subject on here, and i doubt it will be the last.

 

[Karl]

Agreed.

 

[DavidSauls]

I "niced" that for the "stone someone with red thumbs" phrase. The rest was a bonus.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I think Sisyphus started out only doing reviews of courses he has played on more than one occasion... not sure if he still has that standard.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Like many places, a number of our disc golf courses are in flood plain areas that aren't much good for other things, and as a result courses built on those pieces of land aren't doing so good. Even on courses that are still playable, the soil is saturated, parts of those courses are muddy and as a result, the local parks department hasn't been mowing for awhile.

There's a review for one of the Myrtle Beach área courses, must be from six or seven years ago. Reviewer played it right after a tropical storm or a week of record rainfall. Something like a foot of rain fell in a couple days. Reviewer from out of state plays it about a week later and knocks the course and the park for overall conditions, including damage to the park due to part of it being under water just days prior. Of course he railed on the course because it wasn't back up and running. Honestly, if I were with a small town parks and rec, and I heard feedback like that, I'd just say screw it and get rid of the course if that's the appreciation I got.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Sometimes, its best just to not submit a review.

Reviews are reviews. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't take them personally, especially when they are not a review of you.

Sometimes, its best to just ignore a review you don't like.

If a course is unplayable after a rain, the review should probably mention that. If they don't like the design, aren't happy with the amenities, lost 50 discs in what they consider to be an unfair hazard placement, don't like the tree color, etc., that should all go into their review if that is what it important to them. If a fire just took out all the trees and melted the baskets, this should be reflected in their review no matter how "acute" the fire was. If they found that breathing without the inhalation of mosquitos was only possible if they wore a face mask, that should also be mentioned. The traveler reading that review a week later might be thankful for being given the opportunity not to experience the same conditions.

If a course in your neck of the woods had just had an episode of flooding, storm damage, fire or some other issue that was probably an acute matter, and someone from out of state, ignorant to the situation, came by and complained about it not being in impeccable shape, how would you feel?

Reviews of your local courses aren't about you. In life, other people are going to have opinions different than yours. Accept this, or don't, but it will be true either way.

Anyway, reviews are for travelers - for people who have never been to the course. Not for locals who think that the course they learned the sport on (and play every day) is the 11th greatest course in the world (but who are afraid to click on the "More Top Rated Courses . . ." link for fear of having their bubble burst). If there were a check box to exclude the reviews of locals, it would be the most useful check box on the search page.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

If they don't like the design, aren't happy with the amenities, lost 50 discs in what they consider to be an unfair hazard placement...

The unspoken truth is that a lot of lowball ratings are from people who weren't good enough to play an advanced skill-level course. The course isn't unfair. Your 250-foot drives just won't play well on a 12,000 foot course.

 

[Rob Martin]

david?

 

[davetherocketguy]

If there were a check box to exclude the reviews of locals, it would be the most useful check box on the search page.

So true.

A smart person looks at all the reviews and if they see one mentioning flooding and the rest don't its pretty easy to draw the conclusion that the flooding event might be an anomaly.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Like many places, a number of our disc golf courses are in flood plain areas that aren't much good for other things, and as a result courses built on those pieces of land aren't doing so good. Even on courses that are still playable, the soil is saturated, parts of those courses are muddy and as a result, the local parks department hasn't been mowing for awhile. So yeah, when that hasn't happened for a few weeks, you can expect taller than normal grass.

Thank you. My DG experience is richer having been able to play Harmony Bends... a course that I'm pretty sure wouldn't exist if that parcel was more suitable for some other activity.

Sometimes mother nature (or perhaps man-made factors) don't cooperate with your travel plans, be they DG or otherwise. Life comes with no guarantees. How much you personally $pent to arrive at the course is irrelevant, and quite possibly how much time you spent getting there.

Anyway, reviews are for travelers - for people who have never been to the course. Not for locals who think that the course they learned the sport on (and play every day) is the 11th greatest course in the world (but who are afraid to click on the "More Top Rated Courses . . ." link for fear of having their bubble burst). If there were a check box to exclude the reviews of locals, it would be the most useful check box on the search page.

Not only do I agree with the bold part, I've said so several times in the past. As for the underlined...

While I understand the idea behind dismissing/ignoring local reviews because so many of them have a severe homer bias, something locals can (and in my opinion, should) do far more effectively than travelers can, is provide a perspective of consistency of course conditions.
How often is this course flooded?
How well does it drain after a storm?
How often is long grass a problem?
How good is the park/proprietor about trimming back growth/general maintenance?

These are things travelers basically have no feel for (except maybe drainage).
Wish I'd thought about those points before reviewing my local courses.
Maybe one rainy weekend, I'll update some of my local reviews to include that info.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

While I understand the idea behind dismissing/ignoring local reviews because so many of them have a severe homer bias, something locals can (and in my opinion, should) do far more effectively than travelers can, is provide a perspective of consistency of course conditions.
How often is this course flooded?
How well does it drain after a storm?
How often is long grass a problem?
How good is the park/proprietor about trimming back growth/general maintenance?

These are things travelers basically have no feel for (except maybe drainage).
Wish I'd thought about those points before reviewing my local courses.
Maybe one rainy weekend, I'll update some of my local reviews to include that info.

I have yet to write a review but have 1/2 composed part of what I might say in the initial review of my home course. Which by the way I think Doofenshmirtz's review was one of the best written for it but would also love to write a review to give an update of progress. Not sure when or how to make some of those comments, but the course is not all that old, less than 5 years and there are details I think are important such as how weather at different times of the year effect the course. New pin placements have gone in. There are a few frustrating reasons we have effectively no tee-signs.

Not really to defend or try and rate the course higher but recognizing that these are things only a local reviewer would know and could get out there.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Not really to defend or try and rate the course higher but recognizing that these are things only a local reviewer would know and could get out there.

That's all we can ask of local reviewers. Not saying you shouldn't describe how the course plays, but please tell us how certain weather/maintenance conditions affect the course and how frequently they're an issue. This sort of info helps travelers prepare, and for some people, might even impact decisions on which courses to hit.

 

[sisyphus]

I think Sisyphus started out only doing reviews of courses he has played on more than one occasion... not sure if he still has that standard.

Originally, I felt like five visits would let me see the course under a variety of conditions, then shifted to just a couple, and finally decided as I got further from home (and more experienced) that I understood what to write about after a good single visit. I try never to ding a course for transient issues, and focus as much as I can on trying to describe what another traveler could expect of the design...

...it does dig into my mild tendencies toward OCD that I still have a lot of courses played that I may never review...

 

[ru4por]

As a traveling disc golfer, ratings is of little importance. They even out over the long run anyway. I am all about the review. I have my personal laundry list of amenities and course features that interest me. Reviews generally provide me with that info. The best reviews lean heavy on description and light on judgement. Nothing wrong with telling me about tall grass or muddy fairways. The concept of getting butthurt over a review or rating is nearly beyond my comprehension.

As far as filtering out local bias, trusted review filter is probably pretty close.

 

[air show]

The first thing I do when I read a review is look at the cons and if tall grass or unruly vegetation is listed I know that there is a possibility of this being a reality when I show up at the course. I've had my heart broken to many times not to be cautious. Moreover what can be more useful than a well written review is just a simple course condition update. Blessed are those who update the course conditions.

 

[Emoney]

Disagree. If its a solid course with a good amount of reviews, a few "travelers" bad remarks wont hurt the rating.

I had to accept this because we used to have a amazing course that was flooded for 3-4 months each year. After the water drained out, the course was a mess.

Everybody keep reviewing and everything will average out. No biggie

 

[wellsbranch250]

something locals can (and in my opinion, should) do far more effectively than travelers can, is provide a perspective of consistency of course conditions.
How often is this course flooded?
How well does it drain after a storm?
How often is long grass a problem?
How good is the park/proprietor about trimming back growth/general maintenance?

These are things travelers basically have no feel for (except maybe drainage).
Wish I'd thought about those points before reviewing my local courses.
Maybe one rainy weekend, I'll update some of my local reviews to include that info.

As a bagger, I am very appreciative of the locals that go back and re-review their courses with info like this. For example, bjreagh in Nashville does a great job of going back every couple of years and giving an update. He has been imensely helpful as I continue to bag his entire metro area.

I think there are several reviews on this site that do a amazing job of informing readers of the seasonal and temporary issues that can arise with a course, even with just their one play. In addition, it appears this plays little to no impact on their rating score of a course.

Personally there are several things that i will note in my cons section that make no impact on my score. First for example, ants, snakes, ticks, poisonous plants, etc, have zero influence on my scores. For course beauty, i try to envision what the course would look like during the summer. I cant think of any courses that look better with all the leaves off the trees (maybe a desert course?). I do not penalize a course just because i showed up in winter. I also do not take rating points off for flooded fairways or drainage issues with the exception of one local course that has been flooded 15 of my 24 appearances. I once gave a 4 rating to a course with several flooded fairway. I will research recent precipitation amounts. That particular course had 20 inches of rain over a 2 week period. That's not the courses fault. The same goes for overgrown fairways. When its been wet, They can't mow the grass. I try my best to overlook these issues cause they are all seasonal, temporary or "you're out in the woods you whiny bitch" issues.

 

[Stardoggy]

After you've played enough courses, you get a feel for what is temporary or permanent (in regards to conditions) pretty quickly. I tend to make note of my experience there, but weather and other small factors don't work into my ratings.

BUT, if a course is flooded out for 3 months out of the year (or something similar), then it deserves to be dinged. It's an obvious gripe.

The best statement I've ever heard about feedback is: "If somebody perceives something as being one way, then there's a reason they perceived it that way, whether you agree with it or not"

 

[ThrowBot]

After you've played enough courses, you get a feel for what is ...

To be fair, some people take longer than others to "get a feel for" a course and be comfortable writing a review.

We can't all be out there Stardogging stuff.

 

[Chaz58]

The first thing I do when I read a review is look at the cons and if tall grass or unruly vegetation is listed I know that there is a possibility of this being a reality when I show up at the course. I've had my heart broken to many times not to be cautious. Moreover what can be more useful than a well written review is just a simple course condition update. Blessed are those who update the course conditions.

In my area there is chronic lack of people updating course conditions. We have made it our mission this year to update the course conditions after EVERY time we play a course. Of course right now having monsoon rains in the midwest part of the country over the last 2 months have kept a lot of people from playing and a lot of the courses in bad conditions (I sometimes wonder what some guys consider "good" conditions. As long as the course isn't under 2 feet of water?) Even reviews for a lot of courses can sometimes skip a year or 2 before anyone leaves a review. AND don't EVER go by the pics of courses showing the holes! Some of those pics are 6 years old and older. I can tell you from experience that a lot of courses have DRASTICALLY changed their look since a lot of pics were posted (The Oaks in Mokena comes to mind here. Pics of that course date back to 2012 I believe).