As good as an ace (eagle)

[Dave242]

What's with the bagging on the Midwest. Some Midwesterner steal your lunch money?

If you are talking about the Chicago area, he is right (other than Highland Park in Joliet)......but that is far from the whole midwest. I know for a fact that MI & WI have some truly difficult/world-class courses and I'm pretty sure MN & IA have some as well. Not sure about the rest of the midwest.

As a rule of thumb (and there are some exceptions): wimpy courses breed wimpy golfers.

 

[skottyb]

Here's another sissy Midwest course... 12000 ft from the longs.

Old English DGC

I'll get some pics posted soon.

 

[billnchristy]

All holes are definitely NOT par 3.

In fact, Phil Arthur pulled an amazing 83 at Flyboy this weekend which would still be 2 over on the ridiculous everything is par 3 school of thought.

When your average hole length is 518' the whole theory of all 3s is invalid.

 

[craftsman]

should read the Eagles are far more difficult than the aces.....my bad! I am beginning to think the par 3 midwest is full of sissy courses?

Haha- no we just count 1000ft holes as par threes. If it was a par five I'd be content with a five, since it's a par three I strive for three and usually end up with a four.
How many times has pa hosted worlds????

 

[optidiscic]

I don't mind that some midwesterners count everything in 3s it's just when they assume the courses with par 66,67,72, etc are inflated that I get rattled. The highest ssa round for world's was a 67 in PA as a matter of fact the entire 2005 worlds is still the highest ssa for a world's yet. Again if you can only count in 3s or if it is your tradition so be it....just don't get mad when the rest of the country evolves and uses LEGITIMATE par 4s,5s, and theres legitimate par 6 in PA and a Par 7 in GA...I think anything over par 5 is getting goofy but counting in 3s only is goofier.

 

[NDABRUSH]

All holes are definitely NOT par 3.

In fact, Phil Arthur pulled an amazing 83 at Flyboy this weekend which would still be 2 over on the ridiculous everything is par 3 school of thought.

When your average hole length is 518' the whole theory of all 3s is invalid.

As short and sucky as I am, I can't realistically play a 600 or 700 ft. as a 3. Like Coach Singletary said,"Can't do it"

 

[NDABRUSH]

I don't mind that some midwesterners count everything in 3s it's just when they assume the courses with par 66,67,72, etc are inflated that I get rattled. The highest ssa round for world's was a 67 in PA as a matter of fact the entire 2005 worlds is still the highest ssa for a world's yet. Again if you can only count in 3s or if it is your tradition so be it....just don't get mad when the rest of the country evolves and uses LEGITIMATE par 4s,5s, and theres legitimate par 6 in PA and a Par 7 in GA...I think anything over par 5 is getting goofy but counting in 3s only is goofier.

I agree, but if a 600 ft. hole is a par 4 then I am playing the 1100 ft. hole as a par 6. Mathematically it makes since to me because you are adding 500 ft. to a par 4.

 

[Trampy1]

so you slept in a snow cave....sweet!

What happens in the snow cave, stays in the snow cave!

 

[scarpfish]

I don't mind that some midwesterners count everything in 3s it's just when they assume the courses with par 66,67,72, etc are inflated that I get rattled.

In many cases, its because it is inflated. That has more to do with how stupid a concept Par is, where the Par on each hole has to be rounded to a whole number. The discrepancy between Par and SSA would go down significantly if we could have half-pars.

What makes you think "everything is Par 3" is some Midwestern born concept? I know plenty of Midwesterners who don't believe that, and plenty of non-Midwesterners who do.

Again if you can only count in 3s or if it is your tradition so be it....

When most people say this, Midwesterner or not, they're not referring to the actual par of the course, they're referring to a quick method for scorekeeping.

If you had taken the time to click the user profile of the guy who said "all holes are par 3!", you'd see he's played all of three courses, not a single 18 holer among them, in his backyard in Chicago. Yeah, that's really a good example to broadbrush an entire region of the country on.

just don't get mad when the rest of the country evolves and uses LEGITIMATE par 4s,5s, and theres legitimate par 6 in PA and a Par 7 in GA...I think anything over par 5 is getting goofy but counting in 3s only is goofier.

Out of your 111 played courses, I don't see a single Midwestern course, so how on earth do you know what our offerings are? Maybe you should come here and play Sioux Passage, Pickard, West Lake, Blue Valley or Ozark Mountain sometime.

Then tell me we haven't "evolved" from "everything is par 3" around here. I mean hell, just last week I think we got indoor plumbing.

 

[billnchristy]

Testy.....

 

[simpletwist]

All holes are definitely NOT par 3.

You got that right.

Congrats on the Eagle.

 

[Dave242]

In many cases, its because it is inflated. That has more to do with how stupid a concept Par is, where the Par on each hole has to be rounded to a whole number. The discrepancy between Par and SSA would go down significantly if we could have half-pars.

Your solution would take a baby step towards solving the issue.

The bigger problem is that SSA is Scratch Scoring Average. It is the average that 1000 rated players (Gold level) score. Since most courses are designed for White level players (875-925 rated) and par is set appropriately (more or less) for them, it is no wonder Gold level players do well on them and make a mockery of Par.

It is like Pro ball golfers playing from the ladies' tees. While par is set appropriately for ladies, the Pro's would make a mockery of Par for those tees.

 

[solomon.trenton]

I agree, but if a 600 ft. hole is a par 4 then I am playing the 1100 ft. hole as a par 6. Mathematically it makes since to me because you are adding 500 ft. to a par 4.

if it is a tight place with lots of OB then i agree with you. if its a wide open field then par 5 would be fine.

 

[simpletwist]

Distance is not the only criteria for what constitutes par, and regardless of how YOU score each hole, Par is as listed. So a 2 on a Par 4 is an Eagle.

 

[optidiscic]

All apologies to any midwesterners I pissed off. I lumped all midwesterners into the everything is par 3 because I only ever hear that argument coming out of the midwest...esp..michigan. I don't doubt there are some great courses out there and there are many on my wish list. I think I started the hate on the midwest because a few have inferred that anything over par 3 is inflated...not so in this day and age. I have seen the outdated/inflated par 4s and par 5s. (rutgers, Sherando etc) but I have also played gold level par 65-72 courses as well. I don't mind counting in 3s to keep score if it is easier and I'm sure it keeps things simpler as many don't know the actual par of certain holes.(ends arguments) My problem is the few who think that par 4s and par 5s are inflated par 3s...I don't think these people have played a real course.

 

[simpletwist]

All apologies to any midwesterners I pissed off. I lumped all midwesterners into the everything is par 3 because I only ever hear that argument coming out of the midwest...esp..michigan. I don't doubt there are some great courses out there and there are many on my wish list. I think I started the hate on the midwest because a few have inferred that anything over par 3 is inflated...not so in this day and age. I have seen the outdated/inflated par 4s and par 5s. (rutgers, Sherando etc) but I have also played gold level par 65-72 courses as well. I don't mind counting in 3s to keep score if it is easier and I'm sure it keeps things simpler as many don't know the actual par of certain holes.(ends arguments) My problem is the few who think that par 4s and par 5s are inflated par 3s...I don't think these people have played a real course.

Not to continue the threadjack any further than it already went, but I couldn't have said it any better myself. I don't know about the midwest thing though. I'd love for every one of the "Everything is a Par 3" folks to play number 1 at Emery Park right here in Western NY. And then I defy any of them to average even close to 3. And that's from the whites. I won't even assume they'd try the Blue or Gold tees.