ATTN: TWIN CITIES, MN DG'ers

[Craton]

For all of you who frequent the courses of Saint Paul/Minneapolis in MN, I just wanted to throw something out there at the start of this season.

I know a lot of folks were upset that Kaposia went to pay to play. I also remember a lot of folks decided to take it out on the middle man by rocking the temp pro-shop that was handling the day passes with theft and damages. Not cool.

The reason I'm writing right now is to you guys who need a more constructive outlet to vent about North Valley going to pay to play as well. The city of Inver Grove decided to go to do day passes as well.

What really bothers me is that within 3 days of the course being up and running on passes, one of the guys running the shop has had his car tagged in graffiti. Now, it could totally just be that it was coincidental, but remembering the history of last summer, it more than likely is a disgruntled discer pissed about shelling out 3 bucks to support their course.

I am quite aware of the fact that the hoodlums responsible probably don't read these threads, or even know what a forum is, but for those of you who do read this, just know this:

1) The guys working that shop aren't your enemy. If you are trying to get a free park by intimidating them, remember this: they can just find another job and be replaced. And if things get out of control, the city could just opt for the position of collecting fees to be a city job- thus you're going to be paying to play AND paying taxes for a civil servant.
2) If you are pissed about paying to play a once free park, then go talk to the city. Parks cost money to maintain.
3) They could have very well decided not to couple the day/season passes with Kaposia, and charged you for both. Be thankful they decided to partner the two courses.
4) If you see people defacing or damaging the shop or cars in the lot, feel free to call the authorities.

--This all comes from a dude who is just trying to get by this summer working at a disc shop. I barely make just enough to pay rent, eat, and occasionally pay off school loans- and that's with me assuming I'll pick up another job on top of this one. I'm not a huge fan of paying to pay for courses either. But my beef isn't with the people charging- it's with my empty wallet. Let's have a good summer.

 

[MNcyclone]

Nice. I completely agree. The funny thing is that those bastards are the reason I love the pay to play system, because they are now relegated to the parking lot instead of congregating in my line.

I am no fan of Fairway Flyerz, but I have to give them credit for stepping up and saving Kaposia. There are elements in this community that would love to shut down disc golf, and Fairway gave West St. Paul a reason to keep disc golf alive. Snelson makes barely any money off of the receipts for rounds, I saw his ledger myself. That vandalism could have put that operation to rest because his bottom line isn't that great with the Kaposia outlet to start with. I personally hope he does well and sells lots of discs so he maintains his shack at Kaposia.

One of the arguments I hear is that the money made by the pay to play isn't being reinvested in the course. The thing is that disc golf courses cost tons of money to operate, so the money is being used to cover normal opperating costs. I have no problem with that, and if we get solid tees at all the holes this year I will consider it a huge victory.

Now as to the decision to not put pins in at Kaposia for three more weeks, that I have an issue with.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Considering that all 3 Three Rivers courses are shut down essentially for November thru March at minimum, having Kaposia only out of commission for 6-8 weeks and The Valley not at all, it's not that tough to take.

 

[Craton]

Now as to the decision to not put pins in at Kaposia for three more weeks, that I have an issue with.

You and me both

 

[smarkquart]

We have talked a few times now and you aware of the job and financial difficulties I face, and yet I completely support pay to play courses that offer season passes. Free courses have their place, especially if I am only looking for a rec round, but if I am out there to have fun by playing a serious round, I do not want all the douchery we have been discussing and witnessing in the other threads.

As employees to "rival" stores, it really is nice to see that the passion for the game can be instilled within in an hourly rate of pay.

Maybe next year I will enter DGA's basket contest, win a course, and set up an 18 holer up on my grandfather's land north of Hinkley. I was always toyed with the idea in case I won the lottery, but I think I would still make it pay to play. The trick is to make it worth the player's while, something a little more special than what can be accomplished at the best day at a free course.

 

[Sadjo]

I grew up playing Disc Golf and remember when Kaposia was just a nine hole course and Acorn was the premier course in the twin cities. I'm visiting my family in Plymouth this summer (June 26th through July 2nd if you want to meet to play a round somewhere.)

Neither Kaposia or The Valley is on my list this visit but I would have no problem paying the daily or annual fee to play either of those courses. They are two of the best course in the cities.

FYI - I plan on playing BRP for the first time and getting the usual rounds in at Plymouth Creek, Basset Creek and Sunnyside.

 

[Craton]

It should also be noted that if you're under 21, you get to play for free. Sooo...yeah.

 

[Kaijinbo]

Not cool...

I was at Fairway Flyerz a few days ago and overheard them talking about the shack being broken into and a bunch of discs stolen. Not cool. Kaposia is a great course that's been in need of some TLC for a long time. I have high hopes for what they're doing out there. If they can get it groomed to even half as nice as Blue Ribbon Pines and Bryant Lake, I call it a win.

BUY A PASS!!! Support MN Disc Golf!!!

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

I grew up playing Disc Golf and remember when Kaposia was just a nine hole course and Acorn was the premier course in the twin cities. I'm visiting my family in Plymouth this summer (June 26th through July 2nd if you want to meet to play a round somewhere.)

Neither Kaposia or The Valley is on my list this visit but I would have no problem paying the daily or annual fee to play either of those courses. They are two of the best course in the cities.

FYI - I plan on playing BRP for the first time and getting the usual rounds in at Plymouth Creek, Basset Creek and Sunnyside.

Small twin cities meet up perhaps?

 

[Sadjo]

Small twin cities meet up perhaps?

Yeah. My plans are to play Blue Ribbons Pines for sure. I will play Basset Creek, Plymouth Creek and Sunnyside...because those are the courses that are close to my parents house and are short enough for my kids to play.

Last time I visited in the summer months in 2009 I played Plymouth Creek, Basset Creek and Bryant Lake. I'd like to play Kaposia again...I haven't played it since is was 18 holes...but that's probably not in the cards this trip...

 

[slimshadyemb]

I am still a rather noob DGer, however

BRP is worth every penny

Bryant is worth every penny

Played Kaposia last year about 10 days after it went pay. I was upset to hear about all the valdalism, and it's people like this who ruin a nice day for lots and lots of honest players. These are the inconsiderate people that the fee is designed to keep OFF the course and not ruin my day by swearing/throwing into people/leaving trash everywhere.

That said, I was a little disappointed when I played Kaposia for the first time. There was nothing to offer direction to the next tee. Grass was VERY long. There weren't very many garbage baskets. It was oppresively hot (which was not their fault, but did not help my experience) I would have liked to see some money put into the park before charging people, instead of the other way around. I ended up skipping several holes due to the lack of sinage and a guide. Hopefully some of this money goes into the course and starts to resemble other pay courses in the area. I look forward to a return trip, but this may end up on my "skip it" list if improvements aren't made

Haven't played North Valley. Will likely do the day pass with Kaposia. hopefully they make improvements to this course quickly as well, before waiting for lots of paying players to shell out before doing it

DGCR MN summer tournament FTW. Where do I sign up?

 

[MNcyclone]

I think we should organize a doubles DGCR meet up, and from the sounds of it Bryant lake would work well. If we have people coming from out of town BRP is a little out of the way and not inclusive towards tagalongs that aren't great disc golfers. If we are dead set on BRP I would be happy to pick some people up if it would make the difference on attendance.

In other news, vandals struck Lakewood last Sunday. Hole #9 had its chains mutilated. Some a-hole actually cut through the welds on the chain carriage and stole the carriage and chains, leaving the basket and pole intact. This crap has to stop, I will personally f up anyone connected to this kind of BS. What could anyone do with just the friggin chains? A home depot trip could have yielded almost the exact same thing for 20 bucks. ARGHHH! :wall:

 

[Sadjo]

I think we should organize a doubles DGCR meet up, and from the sounds of it Bryant lake would work well. If we have people coming from out of town BRP is a little out of the way and not inclusive towards tagalongs that aren't great disc golfers. If we are dead set on BRP I would be happy to pick some people up if it would make the difference on attendance.

I'll be staying in Plymouth and Bryant Lake is much closer. I just haven't had a chance to play BRP on previous visits and I've been looking forward to playing that course.

I'm not sure which day works best right now. Which ever day I Disc Golf I have to make sure my wife and kids have something planned other than hanging out at my parents house.

Might send them to the mall or the zoo.

 

[deadbody]

I am still a rather noob DGer, however

BRP is worth every penny

Bryant is worth every penny

Played Kaposia last year about 10 days after it went pay. I was upset to hear about all the valdalism, and it's people like this who ruin a nice day for lots and lots of honest players. These are the inconsiderate people that the fee is designed to keep OFF the course and not ruin my day by swearing/throwing into people/leaving trash everywhere.

That said, I was a little disappointed when I played Kaposia for the first time. There was nothing to offer direction to the next tee. Grass was VERY long. There weren't very many garbage baskets. It was oppresively hot (which was not their fault, but did not help my experience) I would have liked to see some money put into the park before charging people, instead of the other way around. I ended up skipping several holes due to the lack of sinage and a guide. Hopefully some of this money goes into the course and starts to resemble other pay courses in the area. I look forward to a return trip, but this may end up on my "skip it" list if improvements aren't made

Haven't played North Valley. Will likely do the day pass with Kaposia. hopefully they make improvements to this course quickly as well, before waiting for lots of paying players to shell out before doing it

DGCR MN summer tournament FTW. Where do I sign up?

I have made this same point only to be told I don't understand business or how gov't works.

If you are going to charge for a premium product, you need to offer a premium product. Right now Kaposia is a harder version of Acorn park. A nice park, with good holes, but a not great layout that is somewhat unclear, and poorly maintained.

We are not the people who need to be listened to though. I'll buy 3 or 4 day passes to Kaposia anyways cause I like the course, and $5 isn't that big a deal. I won't play the valley cause frankly I don't like the course and if I'm gonna drive that far from home and pay $5 I'm playing BRP.

The people who need to be courted are the n00bs. And I brought one to Kaposia last year. He loves Bryant, he loves BRP, he stated he probably wouldn't pay to play Kaposia again because he didn't see the money in the course. The city either needed to spend the money upfront to make Kaposia a world class course in appearance, or charge a lower amount, and put the money into the course at a slower pace and raise prices when the course warranted it.

I am seriously considering not playing Kaposia this year simply because I don't see the money going back into the course and I don't want to subsidize poor government mangaement.

 

[Guurn]

If I remember they poured a few new teepads and there seemed to be a massive stairway being put in by the stream so something is being put into it. Good signage would be huge though.

 

[yawpstang64]

If you are going to charge for a premium product, you need to offer a premium product...
I am seriously considering not playing Kaposia this year simply because I don't see the money going back into the course and I don't want to subsidize poor government mangaement.

The way Parks & Recs are doing these days I'd be f-in amazed to see any upfront improvements. You can't expect them to throw cash at a park when they have no idea how much it'll bring in, so give them a season or two to figure things out and maybe improvements will be implemented prior to the actual collection of cash - sounds like significant benefits are already coming from the fee anyway.
Rarely do courses charge more than $5 - and there are many worse than Kaposia that are $5 - but while people may have complained about the pay2play, they'd complain more about constant rate hikes.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

I'll be staying in Plymouth and Bryant Lake is much closer. I just haven't had a chance to play BRP on previous visits and I've been looking forward to playing that course.

I'm not sure which day works best right now. Which ever day I Disc Golf I have to make sure my wife and kids have something planned other than hanging out at my parents house.

Might send them to the mall or the zoo.

Bryant does have a beach

 

[deadbody]

The way Parks & Recs are doing these days I'd be f-in amazed to see any upfront improvements. You can't expect them to throw cash at a park when they have no idea how much it'll bring in, so give them a season or two to figure things out and maybe improvements will be implemented prior to the actual collection of cash - sounds like significant benefits are already coming from the fee anyway.
Rarely do courses charge more than $5 - and there are many worse than Kaposia that are $5 - but while people may have complained about the pay2play, they'd complain more about constant rate hikes.

Why does government get treated different than business? If Blue Ribbon Pines had a poorly maintained course with bad or no sineage people would be complaining about it, or speaking with their wallets and just not going there.

Why isn't government held to the same standard? They could have started with a lower dollar amount to see what kind of response it got, and then adjusted. Starting at the top when you are offering a subpar product just cause you are government instead of private industry is dumb.

And FYI they already raised the price of a season pass from last year to this AFAIK so they aren't unwilling to raise prices.

 

[CwAlbino]

I grew up playing Disc Golf and remember when Kaposia was just a nine hole course and Acorn was the premier course in the twin cities. I'm visiting my family in Plymouth this summer (June 26th through July 2nd if you want to meet to play a round somewhere.)

Neither Kaposia or The Valley is on my list this visit but I would have no problem paying the daily or annual fee to play either of those courses. They are two of the best course in the cities.

FYI - I plan on playing BRP for the first time and getting the usual rounds in at Plymouth Creek, Basset Creek and Sunnyside.

You should look into a few of the others in the area. South side Red Oak in Burnsville is a really nice 10/20 hole course. Whenever I go back up to MN I usually play:
BRP
Bryant
Kaposia
The Valley
Red Oak
Acorn
Oakwood Park

I wasn't too impressed with Basset or especially Sunnyside :/

It should also be noted that if you're under 21, you get to play for free. Sooo...yeah.

:O I didn't know that. I coulda got in free last year, I still woulda paid though :thmbup:

 

[MNcyclone]

Whats with all the Kaposia hate? It costs the city tons of money to maintain the park, that money you are paying in goes towards all of the deficits the park has run over Kaposia's 30 years on the scene. Lets give it a few years before we expect major improvements.