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Building new par 3 course in Darlington, sc
- Thread starter Gardnerbp
- Start date
Glad to hear that you're asking/willing for help. Shows that your taking a step in the right direction. Keep progressing forward, the DG community will step up and help out.
I know my limitations. But that doesn't mean I want go into uncharted waters. �� Any and all help is truly welcome. My number is8432601288. This is just a first stage for disc golf in Darlington. Much larger plans in the future are possible.
I just want to say A HUGE THANK YOU FOR DOING BASIC RESEARCH AND OBTAINING SOME KNOWLEDGE INSTEAD OF HANDING THE KEYS TO SOME JOE SCHMO OR LETTING RUSSELL SCHWARZ FROM INNOVA ROB YOU. It's extremely refreshing to see someone from a parks and rec do some research.
Here are some basic rules to go by to keep from messing up design and avoid the usual pitfalls:
1: Best course for the land provided. Don't squeeze 18 average holes in when you can do 9 great ones. Let the land be your guide. Some areas need beginner courses, some areas need butt-kicking advanced courses. DG deserts need fun courses, period.
2: SAFETY! Avoid crossing trails, walkways, roads, etc and coming into close proximity with ball fields, playgrounds, neighborhoods, etc. Assume the worst disc golfers are coming to play your course, they will at some point.
3: Be nice to nature. Mark Huether of Charlotte is one of my favorite designers, bar none b/c he gets this. Understand where the erosion and soil compaction is going to be and do measures to prevent it to avoid tree loss, etc. Responsible trail building and trimming/cutting of trees, knowing the invasive species vs the endangered natives, etc.
You abide by these and you'll have a leg up on so many people. As far as the nitty gritty of design goes, there are some nuanced stuff that is hard to explain in brief but I'll try. Scoring separation is a biggie. If everyone gets the same score on a hole constantly, despite differing skill levels, weather, etc, it's a bad hole. A good hole rewards good play and punishes bad. That's the gist of it. Then you go down the road of debating par and assigning the appropriate par for the appropriate division, etc. But basically (for a par 3) you want some occasional 2's, quite a few 3's, and some 4's, 5's and so on in descending frequency (holes shouldn't be too punitive). Avoid Par 2's like the plague (if trying to do a par 3, avoid making it too easy to drive the green and therefore produce a lot of birdies (2's) b/c putting is much easier in disc golf than ball golf). Avoid holes that play between a par 3 and a par 4 (a par 3.5 if you will) for the skill level the course is intended. Avoid par 6's, too long can get nutty. Way better to have multiple great par 3's or 4's than one long super hole.
Variety is gold. Holes that go left, go right, straight, up, down, S this way and that, etc. Mix up the hole lengths too, a cheeky short hole after a long bomber hole can be golden. Mix up open with wooded holes.
Lastly, route the course so that the final hole ends near the starting hole if possible (if 18 holes, having holes 9 and 10 work back to the hole 1/parking lot, etc is a great bonus). Route the course so that transitions between holes aren't awkwardly long because nobody likes to spend more time walking than throwing.
Feel free to PM me anytime for any questions you have. I wish I lived closer to help you out in person but it looks like Darlington is a good 2 hours + for me and I'm busy with a redesign currently. Good luck.
Here are some basic rules to go by to keep from messing up design and avoid the usual pitfalls:
1: Best course for the land provided. Don't squeeze 18 average holes in when you can do 9 great ones. Let the land be your guide. Some areas need beginner courses, some areas need butt-kicking advanced courses. DG deserts need fun courses, period.
2: SAFETY! Avoid crossing trails, walkways, roads, etc and coming into close proximity with ball fields, playgrounds, neighborhoods, etc. Assume the worst disc golfers are coming to play your course, they will at some point.
3: Be nice to nature. Mark Huether of Charlotte is one of my favorite designers, bar none b/c he gets this. Understand where the erosion and soil compaction is going to be and do measures to prevent it to avoid tree loss, etc. Responsible trail building and trimming/cutting of trees, knowing the invasive species vs the endangered natives, etc.
You abide by these and you'll have a leg up on so many people. As far as the nitty gritty of design goes, there are some nuanced stuff that is hard to explain in brief but I'll try. Scoring separation is a biggie. If everyone gets the same score on a hole constantly, despite differing skill levels, weather, etc, it's a bad hole. A good hole rewards good play and punishes bad. That's the gist of it. Then you go down the road of debating par and assigning the appropriate par for the appropriate division, etc. But basically (for a par 3) you want some occasional 2's, quite a few 3's, and some 4's, 5's and so on in descending frequency (holes shouldn't be too punitive). Avoid Par 2's like the plague (if trying to do a par 3, avoid making it too easy to drive the green and therefore produce a lot of birdies (2's) b/c putting is much easier in disc golf than ball golf). Avoid holes that play between a par 3 and a par 4 (a par 3.5 if you will) for the skill level the course is intended. Avoid par 6's, too long can get nutty. Way better to have multiple great par 3's or 4's than one long super hole.
Variety is gold. Holes that go left, go right, straight, up, down, S this way and that, etc. Mix up the hole lengths too, a cheeky short hole after a long bomber hole can be golden. Mix up open with wooded holes.
Lastly, route the course so that the final hole ends near the starting hole if possible (if 18 holes, having holes 9 and 10 work back to the hole 1/parking lot, etc is a great bonus). Route the course so that transitions between holes aren't awkwardly long because nobody likes to spend more time walking than throwing.
Feel free to PM me anytime for any questions you have. I wish I lived closer to help you out in person but it looks like Darlington is a good 2 hours + for me and I'm busy with a redesign currently. Good luck.
One of our local nine holers here added alternate tees and did this, and I've seen it a few other places. Can't say that I'm a fan. We don't give alternate tees on 18 hole courses 19-36 designations do we?
The tees are pretty different in those courses chuck noted vs just longer and shorter style multiple pad courses.
Such a course should be listed as a 9-holer but, as Chuck says, it gives the 18-hole experience, or at least something like it.
It's a good idea, on suitable properties.
But---back to the first post---I wouldn't count on much of a tournament showing on a 9-hole course, even with 2 sets of tees (or basket locations), at least not around here in South Carolina.
Gardnerbp---a few more thoughts, from someone almost close enough to help:
As an introduction, I'm a private course owner in Newberry, and have been around disc golf for over 20 years. I used to be very active with the Columbia club, and am still pretty well connected with it.
It's exciting to have a councilmember interested in disc golf. In the upstate, there was a boom in courses, allegedly after some mayors got interested. A lot of places have faced indifference from local governments, so this is great news for Darlington.
Everyone here has seen badly-designed courses, and is trying to save you from that. If you're going to the effort and expense, you want to make it as good as possible---whether it's primarily for local recreation, or you hope to have tournaments. I certainly understand not having the funds to pay for a professional designer, and I'm not sure it's as important for a local 9-hole course, anyway. But hopefully some experienced hands will be able to at least advise you, give you some tips, perhaps look over what you've done before you concrete it in.
I've mentioned this on the Columbia Disc Golf Club facebook page, in hopes that some of the people on the NE side of Columbia, less than an hour away, might be interested in helping.
Kelly Melton has already piped in on this thread. Kelly is Mr. Disc Golf in Sumter, designing and building a good course (if he had as much help from the city as you already have, it would be a much better course). As I said before, if he'll offer any help or advice, take it; it'll be good advice.
As an introduction, I'm a private course owner in Newberry, and have been around disc golf for over 20 years. I used to be very active with the Columbia club, and am still pretty well connected with it.
It's exciting to have a councilmember interested in disc golf. In the upstate, there was a boom in courses, allegedly after some mayors got interested. A lot of places have faced indifference from local governments, so this is great news for Darlington.
Everyone here has seen badly-designed courses, and is trying to save you from that. If you're going to the effort and expense, you want to make it as good as possible---whether it's primarily for local recreation, or you hope to have tournaments. I certainly understand not having the funds to pay for a professional designer, and I'm not sure it's as important for a local 9-hole course, anyway. But hopefully some experienced hands will be able to at least advise you, give you some tips, perhaps look over what you've done before you concrete it in.
I've mentioned this on the Columbia Disc Golf Club facebook page, in hopes that some of the people on the NE side of Columbia, less than an hour away, might be interested in helping.
Kelly Melton has already piped in on this thread. Kelly is Mr. Disc Golf in Sumter, designing and building a good course (if he had as much help from the city as you already have, it would be a much better course). As I said before, if he'll offer any help or advice, take it; it'll be good advice.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
18 holes is the default expectation golfers/players have for a game unit. When we did this 2-tee experiment labeling them 1-18, we didn't know if it would work, but it did. Everyone knows there are only 9/10 baskets but the design makes it feel like 18/20. So whether you like it or not, enough other players apparently do like the experience when the terrain and design come together well. We've had league nights for several years now at both courses handling up to 45 players some nights. Both courses have a core of players that consider it their home course and take care of it above and beyond what the Park Dept does. You typically don't see this type of care and support for regular 9-hole courses.
Certainly doesn't make sense to do this 2-tee, 1-36 numbering on 18-hole layouts because you already have two 18-hole layouts. Note that the 2 tees on the 9-hole courses are both designed for the same skill level, red, on these Twin Cities courses. Typically, you design courses with two sets of tees where one set is say blue level and one is red level. The interesting thing about red level in particular is that even our gold level players like playing them because they can score far under red par.
Park Circle DGC in North Charleston, SC, does something similar, although there are 18 unique baskets and tees to make 36 different holes. Perhaps you could use this as inspiration for your particular situation.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=8464&mode=lf
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=8464&mode=lf
Y'all have me scared to put them in the ground now. Well I have the authority to go on a piece of Land that is much longer. And could support 18 holes. It's hilly around small creek. But it could be a cool course. The only thing with it. It's going to take someone who can say this is where you need to cut the wholes and lanes. I can give you a print out of the land or email it. But if I could have some help. I could do it on this land.
filobedo
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,205
You should try to get involved with the original Camden course to get an understanding of what keeping a course playable entails. The course has a great layout but no one seems to want to keep it up in playable conditions. Also, did you buy the baskets last November? I heard a new course was going in your part of the state (not Darlington) but no one seems to know anything about it.
Tee signs and baskets move without an insane amount of work. If you stick with natural tees for a while, you can always easily move the tees, and move the baskets if you must.
If you can get nine in without having to do a crazy amount of work, that may be worth doing. There's a value to putting in a course easily and quickly.
If you can get nine in without having to do a crazy amount of work, that may be worth doing. There's a value to putting in a course easily and quickly.
Don't be scared.....we just want the best for you.
But be patient---hopefully someone experienced will be able to go to Darlington and get a peek.
Out of curiosity, how many acres are these parcels?
Old Dog
Eagle Member
For learning the ropes and especially for a short par 3 course my advice to anyone would be to get a putter such as the Aviar (I prefer max weight putters myself because they fly truer in the wind) and a stable mid range such as the Mako or Coyote that won't turn to the right or fade hard at the end of the flight. Play with nothing but these two disc for at least the first 6 months or so until you really have a consistent throw and good form.
Once you can get these two disc to go more or less where you expect them to consistently add a fairway driver or two, one stable and one overstable and work with them for a couple of months. Just keep repeating this process.
Try to resist the urgeto buy tons of disc that you are not ready for. It will only slow your progress in developing good habits or worse cause you to develop bad habits. A putter and mid is all you really need for a par 3 course anyway.
Once you can get these two disc to go more or less where you expect them to consistently add a fairway driver or two, one stable and one overstable and work with them for a couple of months. Just keep repeating this process.
Try to resist the urgeto buy tons of disc that you are not ready for. It will only slow your progress in developing good habits or worse cause you to develop bad habits. A putter and mid is all you really need for a par 3 course anyway.
14.8 acres need a design. How much do they cost and what do they do?
The attached website is the parcel description. It's 14.8 acres and I'm sold on trying for 18 holes. From there you can click the map and see the site. You can click roads, aerial view, measure and design holes or at least see what length of holes you could put on the land. Really hilly for SC. Go have fun and screenshot some designs. Then maybe send them to my email.. [email protected].
Anyone know how much a desig would cost? do they sit on sight while the trees are cut and paths made or do they give a design and a 3rd party cuts the holes as drawn on a the blue prints?
https://qpublic.schneidercorp.com/A...geTypeID=4&PageID=7158&KeyValue=164-16-01-012
The attached website is the parcel description. It's 14.8 acres and I'm sold on trying for 18 holes. From there you can click the map and see the site. You can click roads, aerial view, measure and design holes or at least see what length of holes you could put on the land. Really hilly for SC. Go have fun and screenshot some designs. Then maybe send them to my email.. [email protected].
Anyone know how much a desig would cost? do they sit on sight while the trees are cut and paths made or do they give a design and a 3rd party cuts the holes as drawn on a the blue prints?
https://qpublic.schneidercorp.com/A...geTypeID=4&PageID=7158&KeyValue=164-16-01-012
The Innova course design website says, expect to pay $400 per hole. And that's designing, marking tee and basket locations and flagging trees. There are other options, and other designers---up to turnkey.
I'm a big supporter of professional design.....but not sure you need it, and certainly understand if you can't afford it. It's more important for tournament courses and courses that will see high usage. For a small town course, you might find something between professional and novice---someone experienced and helpful and free.
On that map, are there structures? Can they be used? Must they be avoided? It's labeled and old water plant.
I'm a big supporter of professional design.....but not sure you need it, and certainly understand if you can't afford it. It's more important for tournament courses and courses that will see high usage. For a small town course, you might find something between professional and novice---someone experienced and helpful and free.
On that map, are there structures? Can they be used? Must they be avoided? It's labeled and old water plant.
bhadella
* Ace Member *
14.8 acres is on the small side for 18 holes (especially if you need to steer clear of the old plant).
filobedo
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,205
I would start with Coker College nearby. I would think they only have 10-15 acres and a pretty fun course if it is still there. Wofford in Spartanburg also had a fun course that was similar but I was told it was pulled.
