Cement for tee pads

[Urbanator]

I'm trying to get tee pads installed at my home course. Questions:

How much cement is needed per pad (4 ft X 8 ft) in 60-pound bags?

Are store-bought Quickrete bags feasible or should I try to get bulk cement?

How much will it cost per pad?

Any insights appreciated.

 

[markmcc]

For a 4' x 8' pad that is 4" thick, you're looking at around 24 sacks of mix. Quickrete (or Sakrete) is fine. It is not the highest quality concrete, but you're not building a bridge. Some folks will buy a sack of straight portland cement and make the Quickrete a little richer by adding a cup or two of cement to each bag.

Realize that if you get bulk cement you'll also need sand and gravel to make up concrete. It will likely be cheaper, but more work. And you'll need to figure out how to batch it. In the good ol' days folks would use ratios like 3 shovels full of gravel, 2 of sand, and 1 of cement and that worked out fine. Commercial concrete is mixed more accurately by the weight of components, but volume can work as well.

Home Depot has 60 pound sacks of Sakrete on sale for $1.99 right now, so you're looking at around $50 (concrete only) for a pad. You should add a layer of 4" x 4" steel mesh (or 6" x 6" if that is all you can find) to reinforce the pad and hold it together if it cracks. Proper prep of the ground beneath the pad will go a long way toward success. Some folks will add a deeper "beam" around the perimeter to give a stiffer edge and some protection against undercutting, but that is up to you. The sky's the limit on how complicated you want to make things.

Good luck.

Mark

 

[MikeK]

Mark can you explain in more detail what you mean by adding a deeper beam to avoid undercutting? Are you talking about keeping the pads flush with the surrounding ground maybe?

 

[FunkyTownNoob]

Think of it is a retaining wall under the perimeter of the pad. It keeps erosion from washing out the earth below the pad. Too much erosion, and one good solid foot plant from a big guy and the pad is toast. (Assuming the tee pad was constructed of sub-par materials/workmanship)

 

[markmcc]

This isn't the same as pouring the slab flush with surrounding ground. What I'm talking about would be easy if I could figure out how to attach a picture!

If you imagine a slab that is 4" thick, there would be a somewhat deeper area around the edges that would penetrate farther into the ground. For instance, if you wanted a 6" (wide)x 8" (deep) edge beam, you would dig down an additional 4" for a width of 6" all the way around the edge of the pad. With this edge beam, even if 4" of the ground eroded away, you would still have the edge of your slab embedded 4".

If all of the ground around the tee pad is dead flat, and you poured the pad flush with the ground, you probably won't need an edge beam. But if the ground slopes off or you set the top of the pad above surrounding ground, than an edge beam will give you extra depth into the ground to prevent or delay undercutting of your concrete pad.

I did find this image for a house slab with an edge beam. It is a little extreme but should give the idea:

 

[mattc]

its cheaper to call a truck than buy bags

 

[discoriented]

its cheaper to call a truck than buy bags

What he said, unless you're using someone else's back.

 

[MacDaddy]

What kind of course is it? A Rec/Int course can get by with 4' x 8' tee pads. If you are looking at an Int/Adv or Pro course, you should make them 5' x 12' and don't go less than 5' x 10'. Mixing bagged concrete on site is labor and dollar intensive and you only want to do it if you have to (due to site location, terrain or other restrictions). Redimix from a truck is the way to go. About $100 per cubic yard. Add in some polyfiber mix (forget the rebar or wire mesh) and it might go to $110 / cu. yd.

4' x 8' tee pads, for 18 is 7.11 cu. yds. (x 1.05% for waste/error = 7.46 cu. yds., order 7.5)

If you are mixing your own, on site, have a reliable crew that is willing to work some long hours, over several days. If you do the redimix off the truck, have a crew of 4-6 guys who are willing to work hard, and quickly. The truck will be sitting there waiting. Anything more than 2 hrs and they will likely bill you for it. Don't forge,t how you are going to get that concrete out to all those (pre-dug, pre-framed and crushed stone base prepared) tee-pads. (I just got 10 tons of recycled, crushed concrete for $5.50 per ton. It makes a great base.)

 

[Bultx1215]

Anytime you can buy bulk, it will save money. Bags will always cost more, but then you can go as fast or slow as you want. I stay away from the cheaper sackrete stuff and go with Maximizer at Homey Despot should I use bags. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Maximizer-80-lb-Concrete-Mix-MAX80/203993808?N=5yc1vZbogd That stuff is 5500psi and has an excellent cement content so you will actually get a good finish. It also really does take fewer bags to get the jobs done, even when comparing it to std. 80#ers.

Short loads from a ready mix co. will cost more. My short loads are anything below 5 yds. So, with all the short load charges, a single yard or even as much as four yards will cost the same as five. Don't like it, but that is the rule here. YMMV.

Another option is to find a ready mix outfit that will dry batch in volumetric trucks. That way, you pay for what you use, it won't be setting up in the truck if you take too long or it gets hot quickly and they are mainly used for short loads.

FWIW, this is a volumetric truck. All materials are dry and separately contained onboard. The mix can be metered to whatever you would possibly want and water is mixed in at the chute. The concrete isn't usually the best quality, mainly because they only use one size of sand, but it will be fine for flatwork of any type...including tees.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Find a concrete company willing to donate leftover mix from thieir jobs.
Build some 2'x2'x4" forms and deliver them to the company so they can pour the leftovers into them.
Wait for the phone call to go pickup free pavers.

 

[brickdoctor]

you get 81 sq foot to a yard of concrete at 4 inches thick . a yard of concrete here in michigan goes for about 80.00 per yard . with a 3 yard min. but it is far better then mixing bags of quickrete, the bags have very little and small stone in them so they will not hold up very good. You may be able to get the concrete company to donate some of the product and place a sign on the course for them .

 

[Bultx1215]

FWIW
Stone size is not a marker as to how well a mix will hold up. My curb mixes use either a G5 crushed (5/16") or 3/8 pea gravel, depending on company. The majority of those mixes test out at 4500-6500psi. They get brutal treatment and hold up very nicely. The Maximizer mix I posted uses a 5/16-3/8 crushed rock and will test out and hold up very nicely if mixed properly. Cement content and water content are way more important than rock size. Matter of fact, some of the toughest mixes I have ever used have NO rock at all, just sand and cement and additives. I have some that will test out anywhere from 9000psi to over 65,000psi depending on mix or type and wear like iron or worse. We also use small rock, usually a 3/8 river or crushed, whenever we are having to use a small pump to place concrete. They don't like the big rocks, so small rock is used. It will never impact the ultimate strength or durability of the mix.

 

[markmcc]

FWIW
I have some that will test out anywhere from 9000psi to over 65,000psi depending on mix or type and wear like iron or worse.

I've been a bridge design engineer for 35 years, and we have pretty much maxed out our commercial mix designs at 11,000 - 12,000 psi. The tallest concrete building in the world was built with 12,000 psi concrete. The reinforcing steel itself is around 60,000 psi.

So you need to share your 65,000 psi concrete mix design with the rest of the world. You'll get rich!!

 

[Bultx1215]

Matter of fact, some of the toughest mixes I have ever used have NO rock at all, just sand and cement and additives.

I did say additives. The mix in question is a TXDOT approved Portland/epoxy grout.

 

[adamtheviking5]

Mark can you explain in more detail what you mean by adding a deeper beam to avoid undercutting? Are you talking about keeping the pads flush with the surrounding ground maybe?

Its called a footing.

 

[adamtheviking5]

Find a concrete company willing to donate leftover mix from thieir jobs.
Build some 2'x2'x4" forms and deliver them to the company so they can pour the leftovers into them.
Wait for the phone call to go pickup free pavers.

This is a very good idea. They have to pay to get rid of leftovers anyways so they'd probably be happy to let you take it as long as you make it easy for them.

 

[goosefraba1]

Find a concrete company willing to donate leftover mix from thieir jobs.
Build some 2'x2'x4" forms and deliver them to the company so they can pour the leftovers into them.
Wait for the phone call to go pickup free pavers.

Stealing this idea.

 

[kenjiac]

We (DisCap. Captain A is our TD) have an in with a local concrete company. They hook us up for free but we have no say in the color it's just whatever they have left from customers request. We got enough to do 4 pads last year. We made the connection about halfway thru the summer. Hope to get enough to do 6-8 more this year. Free but we have to wait for them.

 

[Questatement]

We (DisCap. Captain A is our TD) have an in with a local concrete company. They hook us up for free but we have no say in the color it's just whatever they have left from customers request. We got enough to do 4 pads last year. We made the connection about halfway thru the summer. Hope to get enough to do 6-8 more this year. Free but we have to wait for them.

I work for a ready mix company and it's usually best for us if you can take full loads and are willing to pay for truck time. One full load is enough to do 18 pads (4' x 9') at 4" deep or 1/4 more/larger at 3" deep.

Offer to pay truck time from the time the driver leaves the job with the rejected load until he's done unloading at your course and, unless the ready-mix company really needs that truck to deliver during peak demand, should save the company from having to handle recycling costs. If they use their left over to make parking/bin blocks, it won't be so tempting for them.

 

[Mando]

On a lightly-used private course, is 4" thickness necessary? Also, how does concrete bond with boulders?