Clarification Needed: BH vs. FH Distance

[CourseMaintenance]

OK. So if you look at the flight charts on the manufacturer sites, or the inbound charts on retail sites like Infinite, you're told to read them as describing the RHBH flight for that specific disc. Or, to imagine the mirror image as to apply for both LHBH and RHFH.

But I've been watching a lot of Jomez with Big Sexy commentary where Nate will describe how to attack a certain hole by saying you can throw a backhand midrange or a forehand driver for the same shot. So which one is it?

This is my first year playing and currently max both BH and FH consistently at 300ft. I'm working on form and technique to breakthrough the 300ft barrier and acknowledge that right now it's the archer not the arrow. I just want to move forward with realistic expectations.

I know a 350ft backhand with a Teebird3 is obtainable. But am i wasting my time trying to achieve the same distance with my flicks? Should i be throwing something faster for that? I also know that the world record for sidearm is way shorter than backhand, but since my local courses are short and technical with baskets rarely coming close to 400ft from the teepad, that factoid seems a bit irrelevant.

I found a decent amount of chatter online regarding the subject. But most of it is in the "how far does each individual throw" conversation-which comes down to personal ability- and doesn't really answer my question.

 

[pearlybakerbest]

There is more distance potential with poor form in a sidearm since you can use your arm muscles to torque an overstable disc on a flex line. Backhand has far more distance potential but only with solid form. If you learn to throw your flicks on hyzer that flip to flat and S curve you will get much more consistent results and should be able to achieve ~400ft of distance with practice. Anything much over 400 ft with a sidearm is tough to achieve and only a few people like Eagle/Ricky/Barsby can do that with confidence. Feldberg says that even a grandmother should be able to throw 450ft backhand with proper form.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I've got a relatively solid forehand shot and I really only push 350-370 with it. I have accidentally yanked backhand shots 400' on occasion, which tells me that backhand is a greater distance potential.

Raw distance isn't everything though. I play mostly sidearm off the tee, I'm more confident and accurate with it. I play with a couple guys who throw 400' plus with a backhand but I usually score the same as them. I'd rather play a 320' accurate forehand to a great spot than a 400' backhand I personally cant control as well and risk a tough lie.

 

[deyo7]

OK.
But I've been watching a lot of Jomez with Big Sexy commentary where Nate will describe how to attack a certain hole by saying you can throw a backhand midrange or a forehand driver for the same shot. So which one is it?

What he's saying is that the typical shot choice for said hole will be a (fairway) driver thrown FH that will finish to the right OR a more neutral to understable midrange thrown BH on a turnover line that will also finish to the right....

 

[Chaz58]

There is more distance potential with poor form in a sidearm since you can use your arm muscles to torque an overstable disc on a flex line. Backhand has far more distance potential but only with solid form. If you learn to throw your flicks on hyzer that flip to flat and S curve you will get much more consistent results and should be able to achieve ~400ft of distance with practice. Anything much over 400 ft with a sidearm is tough to achieve and only a few people like Eagle/Ricky/Barsby can do that with confidence. Feldberg says that even a grandmother should be able to throw 450ft backhand with proper form.

If Feldberg actually said that he's either full of it or high.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

If Feldberg actually said that he's either full of it or high.

If my high school football coach was critiquing me, he'd say his DEAD grandmother could get it out to at least six. As she could apparently outperform us in every facet of the game.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

What he's saying is that the typical shot choice for said hole will be a (fairway) driver thrown FH that will finish to the right OR a more neutral to understable midrange thrown BH on a turnover line that will also finish to the right....

Doesn't that still imply that you need to disc up to get the same result when throwing a forehand vs backhand?

 

[lyleoross]

The one thing left out of forehand and backhand discussions is that they have different flight paths. A forehand flies like an overstable backhand, and a backhand turnover doesn't, it glides out. You can accomplish different things. That's why the best players can do both.

 

[Future_Primitive]

OK. So if you look at the flight charts on the manufacturer sites, or the inbound charts on retail sites like Infinite, you're told to read them as describing the RHBH flight for that specific disc. Or, to imagine the mirror image as to apply for both LHBH and RHFH.

But I've been watching a lot of Jomez with Big Sexy commentary where Nate will describe how to attack a certain hole by saying you can throw a backhand midrange or a forehand driver for the same shot. So which one is it?

I found a decent amount of chatter online regarding the subject. But most of it is in the "how far does each individual throw" conversation-which comes down to personal ability- and doesn't really answer my question.

On the Inbounds site you can change the "Throw:" field to either RHBH/LHFH or LHBH/RHFH so you can get rid of the mirror.

As for Nate, from what I have seen from watching him is he doesnt really throw midrange forehands. He just powers down a driver, usually that Firebird of his, and sticks his line. A good portion of the pros dont bother with mids for forehanding as they would rather just flick an easy driver that is in their comfort zone.

So he might be saying if you are a predominant backhand thrower than this shot is a midrange that will turnover some and not fade back hard to get that left to right action. Where as if you prefer forehand than it will be an easy flick driver shot to get that left to right line.

 

[lyleoross]

If my high school football coach was critiquing me, he'd say his DEAD grandmother could get it out to at least six. As she could apparently outperform us in every facet of the game.

Damn, I had the same DEAD Grandma on my Cross Country Team! And she could throw at least six, lousy old lady.

 

[deyo7]

Doesn't that still imply that you need to disc up to get the same result when throwing a forehand vs backhand?

Yes. Most pros can throw putters or midranges 400 ft BH, so they would likely select a midrange on the particular hole that you were watching. And, although a lot of pros can crush FH, a fairway driver vs powering up a putter or midrange was the easier or more common play on particular hole you were watching.

Generally speaking, BH has the greater distance potential than FH. But for the average joe, many can throw FH farther than BH until they develop better form, like others said above.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

Everyone is providing good info. And since I'm just now trying to get serious about DG- where as before I was just your typical donkey chucking destroyers around on 250ft holes- I really appreciate the guidance. I guess my main question pertains to one specific hole at my local course.
It's a 400ft dogleg right with a fairly wide fairway and a giant tree right in the middle. And with the decline calculation i figure I only need to get about 350 of distance to hit the circle. I achieved that goal once with a beat to **** Champ Boss flick, but haven't been able to do it again.
I wanna put an order in at the innova factory store and have been itching to try the FD3. I'm contemplating if that's gonna be enough to get me there or not. I already bag firebirds.

 

[ru4por]

Everyone is providing good info. And since I'm just now trying to get serious about DG- where as before I was just your typical donkey chucking destroyers around on 250ft holes- I really appreciate the guidance. I guess my main question pertains to one specific hole at my local course.
It's a 400ft dogleg right with a fairly wide fairway and a giant tree right in the middle. And with the decline calculation i figure I only need to get about 350 of distance to hit the circle. I achieved that goal once with a beat to **** Champ Boss flick, but haven't been able to do it again.
I wanna put an order in at the innova factory store and have been itching to try the FD3. I'm contemplating if that's gonna be enough to get me there or not. I already bag firebirds.

Discs rarely get you distance, technique and practice (field work) do.

 

[slowplastic]

I throw basically the same distance BH and FH, say within 20' or so. Which means my BH is far below the top pro's but my FH is decent since it'll be 375ish golf shots and if it gets turned over right it can hit 400' although that's not expected. I find my discs fly basically identical both BH/FH, just mirror images.

The thing is lots of top pro's will approach 500' BH and 400ish FH it seems, so they have completely different velocity capabilities between those shots. That would be like a player who maxes at 300' trying to throw my bag. Not going to get my flight paths.

I don't feel comfortable FH'ing putters and mids near the distance I do with BH. I can maybe get 275'ish out of a mid with a FH, and I'll be worried about torquing it at that much power. Whereas in a BH it's very easy to smooth it out 300+ for me for a very straight shot. However at fairway speed and above I feel equally comfortable BH/FH. It seems to be common for people to not feel comfortable FH'ing putters and mids super far.

So essentially if I have a 300' straight shot...why would I want to throw a FH with a driver that will fade out when I can throw a BH mid dead straight. Same thing for the pro's when that number is 350' and they can throw a mid straight.

But say it's 330-350 and I want to smash a fairway, then it's the same flight either FH/BH just mirrored.

Edit: I did used to have to disc up one or two speed classes with my FH to match my BH, so just do what works for you. Over time as it improved I could throw the same discs in the same ranges. I do prefer a little more speed and stability FH though, as if I'm throwing FH it's typically because I want it to end right.

 

[slowplastic]

er in at the innova factory store and have been itching to try the FD3. I'm contemplating if that's gonna be enough to get me there or not. I already bag firebirds.

FD3 is really similar to Firebird. Not going to be your longest driver at all. If you want something to lean on with FH shots that won't completely mess up your form by being too OS, but will still fix slight release problems, Thunderbird is better IME. I will get another 25' easy out of a Thunderbird FH than a Firebird and I still will FH it into nearly any wind. The added speed does make it easier to FH than a Teebird too.

Also I recommend FH'ing moderately understable discs too. Get that hyzer flip and let it ride. I'll put Terns and Vulcans out to 375+ FH so you don't need OS discs at all if you have a clean release. Sheriff is fantastic for FH max distance that flex out. Honestly a handful of my high speed discs will all land basically the same distance if thrown well...so there's no one magic disc.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

Again, thanks for the insights gentlemen. It's greatly appreciated.

I think that I'm definitely reading too much into the flight paths. And it would benefit me more to grind out extra field practice to get better with what i already have-become more versatile/examine different line characteristics,possibilities and whatnot- than seeking out to buy that magic bullet based on short-term fixes or assumptions of my future performance and skill level.Which makes sense because I'm a much different player in my second year. And will be probably just as different in my third year as fundamentals improve.

I actually have some thunderbirds on the bench that I stopped throwing for some reason. I need to get them back out again. And I definitely need to tap into that hyzerflip game as well because it sounds like that's the only way to get to 400ft consistently. ( I actually don't think I own anything understable except for a roadrunner. I always used the beefy stuff to mask form flaws.)

I'm realizing that much of this stuff is theoretical and varies greatly from person to person. So In the end, I'm the best person to decide what will ultimately work during each stage of development. But damn don't those companies make it sound so black and white?

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah for me I have found it best to think of discs in slots rather than specific molds. For example for a pro a Thunderbird will be kind of -0.5/2 when they throw it full power. For you it may be 0/2.5 on a fresh one, pretty overstable but still with some glide. So your power straight control driver "slot" may be better suited for a CD2, for example, to cover the pro's Thunderbird line.

Even pro's do this. For example, McBeth likes throwing Roc3's in champ and McPro plastic...beat in McPro for turnovers. Sometimes he has a Mako3 in the bag for these turnover lines instead to cover the beat McPro slot. Maybe he lost one or one became too beat? But if you cover your shot types rather than searching for new stamp names from marketing you'll maybe spend less money and do equally well.

Roadrunners are awesome, definitely throw that BH and FH. Lots of FH players will not throw something that understable, but I've seen Jeremy Koling use them in tourney footage so clean form makes it work great.

 

[BrotherDave]

I'd definitely prefer to have 350' on golf lines for both BH and FH than have say 400' BH and 300' FH. Versatility trumps raw distance on the vast majority of courses.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Forehanding roadrunners is really fun. Nothing more satisfying than a looooooong slow turnover forehand, especially when it gets you closer than all the backhand hyzers your friends throw because it just moves different.

For 400' dogleg right going downhill, I'd probably forehand a Scorpius.

 

[slowplastic]

I'd definitely prefer to have 350' on golf lines for both BH and FH than have say 400' BH and 300' FH. Versatility trumps raw distance on the vast majority of courses.

Plus when it's windy out...hyzers both ways to keep the flight plate hidden is the way to go.