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Course challenge competition idea

scarpfish

Resident Grouch
Gold level trusted reviewer
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
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Brownbackistan
Long post(s) coming so you might wanna go grab a cold one and some chips... :p

I don't know if I would so much call this a tournament, but more of a free flow challenge, as it doesn't involve people meeting at a specified location on a specified date, and would take planning of a better part of a year, but here's the idea.

How it works:
Participants would go around and play courses on a single calendar day. The courses are on a specified list of options for that particular competition. You would not have to play them all (ideally there would be so many choices that this would be impossible), nor would you be required to specifically play any of them. You would also not have to play them in any specific order.

The thing is you would get points for completion of holes, with the number of points you receive on a hole relative to a number of factors, the most important being how well you scored on it.

Hole score:
Each hole, regardless of length, foliage, etc. would have a base value of 100 points which could be bumped up to a higher number on a number of factors. Your score on that hole would then be calculated by taking the hole's value and dividing it by your stroke score on it. If you were to ace a '100 point' hole, you'd get 100 points. A deuce would be 50 points, a three would be 33 1/3, a four would be 25, and so on.

Course nomination period:
In each localized area (which can be a city, or other location with a lot of courses within a reasonable drive, members of DGCR (or whomever else wants to participate) plan an event for that area. It is then the responsibility of each participant to "nominate" a course for inclusion to that event. It can be any number of holes, but must be within radius of a certain fixed point. Should all of courses within that area get nominated, the radius can be expanded accordingly.

The first means by which the value of a hole will be bumped up is if by PDGA par guidelines (PDF) you have a hole that is a legit par 4 or 5. Par 4 holes will be bumped up 50 points. Par 5 holes will be bumped up 100 points.

The second means is by choice of that course's nominator. The nominator will get to choose a set number of holes for a 25 point bonus depending on how many holes are on the course.

Number of holes Bonus Holes
7 or less = 1
8 to 12 = 2
13 to 17 = 3
18 to 22 = 4
23 or more = 5

Holes under 200' would be ineligible for a nominator's bonus.

Bonuses are allowed to compound. So if a course has a Par 4 that is already bumped up 50 pts. for being a Par 4, and the nominator wants to make it bonus hole, it is now an additional 75 points. A highly unlikely ace would be 175 points, an eagle would be 87.5, a birdie three would be 58 1/3, etc.

Quality course election period:
At a set date, the course nomination period will be closed to compile the fixed list of courses which nominators will vote to pick the "quality" courses from the rest. Each nominator will get a number of votes equivalent to approximately one-third of the list. They are not required to use them all. If you say have 30 courses on the list, each nominator could vote for up to ten. When all the votes are tallied, the courses with the most votes to put them in the top one-third will be elevated to 'quality' courses. ALL holes on these courses will have their values bumped up 25 points.

Superior course election period:
You could skip this idea if you have a relatively small number of courses (less than 20). But it essentially repeats the quality course election using only the courses on the quality list. Only 1/4 of the courses on the 'quality' list will be bumped up to 'superior' status, with an added rule that two quality courses cannot be within a certain radius of one another (so people near those courses don't have too much on an advantage over those who aren't). Again, courses that get elected will have the value of ALL of their holes bumped up another 25 points.

Hole lottery:
Once the status of quality and superior courses are set. Every hole on every course whether it be basic, quality or superior will then get a virtual "ball" (you could make this easy using a random number feature on a spreadsheet), which will be "drawn" just like lottery numbers. 15% of the holes will be picked and those particular holes will be given another 25 point bonus.

So conceivably if you had a hole....

Base value = 100 points
That was a legit Par 4 = + 50
And was picked by the course's nominator for a bonus = +25
And the course got bumped up to quality status = +25
And then up to superior status = +25
And then got picked in the hole lottery = +25

...that hole would be worth 250 points....if you were to ace it.

Compilation of values and preparation period:
All of the hole value information on each course would then be compiled and then uploaded to the internet (preferably on a spreadsheet app to make the math easy), or printed out on paper, so participants could see what holes/courses were worth what, and start to strategize what courses to play and in what order.

Play period:
This period should be at least a month long, and ideally centered around the summer solstice. Some in hotter climates might opt for a different period where a balance between temperatures and daylight hours can be reached. Some might think restricted sunlight would make things more challenging. (Night play would be perfectly legal).

Players would simply go and record their stroke scores as they usually would. When the day is done, they would then go plug their scores for all the played courses into the spreadsheet which would convert them into scores for the competition. They would then upload their scores, details and all, for competitors to see. At the end of the competition period, the one with the highest score for a single day is the winner.

You could also make side challenges for best score on single course, or a set of courses, or just the quality/superior course lists, two day competition, nine holers only, etc.

So if I still have your attention (wouldn't blame you if I didn't), what do you think of this? Any questions, or suggestions on how to improve it?
 
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I read through it twice and I think I understand. I think It would be a sweet idea to try. The thing I didn't like, however, is the hole lottery part. I don't know why you would randomly give certain holes more points. Is there a reason for that or is it just something to make more points possible?
 
Sounds contrived. Why not just throw the d@mn disc?

I don't mean to dump on you for being creative - imo there's entirely not enough creativity around - but reading your post, it seems that the math gets in the way of the fun. Maybe it would be different if I was actually participating in such a deal, and I'd certainly be willing to give it a whirl, but imo again if it takes that long to explain, is it really that much of an improvement?
 
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I vote for a vastly simplified scoring mechanism.

And then you push it on people...and if anybody in Rochester wants to do battle..I'm down.

\/\/
 
I think it makes perfect sense with the exception of the lottery holes. (Why throw such randomness into a calculated process?) The complicated part is the math and voting, both of which can be easily done on a webpage. (If only we had a place we could discuss DG courses and vote in poles about which one we like best....) The spreadsheet part I'm sure can be figured out by you IT gurus.

Anyway, the biggest issue I see is honesty. How do you prove your scored what you scored?
 
Sounds contrived. Why not just throw the d@mn disc?
Yeah, why not just throw the d@mn disc? Why bother with recording your scores, tracking your progress, keeping the hole distances, conditions and whatnot at your home course accurate? Why bother taking pictures, or planning road trips, or reviewing courses for other people to read? Oh yeah, if we all did that, this website wouldn't be half of what it is.

I don't mean to dump on you for being creative - imo there's entirely not enough creativity around - but reading your post, it seems that the math gets in the way of the fun. [/quote]
You mean like having knock down, drag out arguments over the course ratings on here and coming up with complicated algorithms on how Timg can keep the input from bad reviewers out? I mean, the math just takes the fun out of that.

Maybe it would be different if I was actually participating in such a deal, and I'd certainly be willing to give it a whirl, but imo again if it takes that long to explain, is it really that much of an improvement?
Who said we were trying to improve upon anything? Its an idea for a competition, and in any type of competition, you have to use math to quantify who did better. In standard stroke play, whether at a tournament, league, or just playing with your buddies, you get a set number and set bunch of holes that everybody gets. Its very easy to determine a winner by fewest number of strokes. That isn't the case here.

And while it took awhile to explain (as all things foreign to most people are), in practice, its not that complicated. All a participant in such an event would have to do is the following:

1. Respond to the request of someone starting an event, i.e. "I'm starting an event for Southern California, any courses within a 75 mile radius of Zip code ____ are eligible".
2. Find a course within the assigned area and nominate it. This for competition purposes is your home course. It is your responsibility to check the distances, foliage and assess if it has any Par 4 or 5 holes which if it does will result in automatic bumps in the value of those holes. You also get to pick some of the holes, at whatever criteria YOU choose to be bonus holes.
3. When the nomination period is closed and the number of courses to be used in the competition is set, you vote on which courses on the list are the best courses which will get a bump in the value of all of their holes. If desired, you then vote again on which of the best courses, are the "best of the best".
4. Once the values of every hole on every course are assigned and posted, you print them out, and you start planning your itinerary and strategy for the day you're going to compete. At what course are you going to start? What route minimizes driving time, and maximizes playing time? What courses give me the most potential points. There's definitely more to this than just going out and playing good.
5. When you are done, you simply type your stroke score results into a spreadsheet app, which much like the scorebook feature on here does all the nasty mathematical stuff for you. You then upload your results so others can see them and compare. Highest total score wins.
6. If need be, you can go out multiple times and see if you can improve on your first attempt and beat your opponents before the competition period ends, perhaps by following a course itinerary they took.
 
More power to you, man - I'm just trying to keep it together so I've got time for one round a week.
 
How about this? Those interested in competing for sake of the course challenge (2 girls 1) cup can say yay, then we find a course in those peoples region with an SSA within a couple points (say 49.2 to 50.2) and then we say every score recorded within a week at that course counts.

At the end of the week we add or subtract the standard deviation to baseline (if my course is 50.2 ssa and yours is 49.2 then everyone at mine loses a stroke...simplicity and maybe over simplified), average the scores and declare a winner?
 
:confused:

I read, and then re-read this thread. I guess I get what you're going for, and I think I can see how people would have fun on this....

definitely props for taking the time, energy, and mental exertion to put this all together...

but, I think I'd have to pass on something like this. I guess I don't see what would keep someone from cheating, but more importantly, it just seems too contrived or artificial to me. I'd rather just go and play, like bazillion.

Sorry for the "hating," man. :\
 
I like it! The whole thing sounds complicated on the surface, but really wouldn't be hard at all to implement. Similar to some good board games.. it might have a 15 page rule book and take 20 Min. to get everyone to understand how to play, but once you start playing it all makes perfect sense. In fact the whole thing reminds me of a really well designed board game but played on courses against other people possibly 100s of miles apart:clap:

<-- huge board game geek I am.

I also must say that well designed games usually have some form of randomness, so the lottery aspect makes perfect sense to me. It would force some variability to ones strategy of which course(s) to play. Without it the popular local course would have so many bonus points while a less liked nearby course would be relatively low value leaving little real choice of where to go. The only suggestion I would make would be to allow more points in the lottery so the course choices would be even less cut and dry.
 
I think its a good idea...trying out a game like this could be pretty fun and could really change the way you think about a course that you play all the time.
 

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