Designing Your First Course: Mistakes Made and Lessons Learned

[Steve West]

I'm a little confused by this statement. Are you saying to avoid placing baskets on flat land if possible? Or just that it will lead to a worn circle?

What can be done to alleviate this issue (especially in areas where much of the land is flat)?

My original point was that new designers sometimes put all the targets at the very peaks of the hills, or the tees at the bottom of a dip and vice-versa.

Those are the only perfectly flat places, usually. So, it looks "right". However, after a few years, the area around the tee or target will get worn down by a few inches, making it the lowest point in the vicinity, so water will collect there.

Experienced designers will look for ways to move them over a little (or a lot) so the tee or target is at least few inches higher than a nearby spot for water to run off to.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I'm curious: what kind of tree(s) comprise the tunnel shot? Is it hanging growth or new growth shooting out vertically?

If you could go back to when you designed this hole knowing what you do now regarding its upkeep, how would you change it (if at all)?

It's mostly hackberry, very common around these parts of Texas, although we have cedar and a couple of oaks in there. We have a number of limbs above that are there as an obstacle, and they tend to sprout out and hang down. We get a bit of new stuff on the sides. We've gotten several big clumps of rain lately. Basically no rain most of the time, and then two days of crazy heavy. So the trees sprout out very rapidly. It's not that it gets unplayable, but the window becomes much tighter than we really want it to be.

Oddly enough, a lot of our oaks have been dying, we're not really sure what is causing it. It's happening at many different places around here, not even on just our property. I guess that may be another point, what will this hole look like if key trees die, and what do you do to fix it.

 

[Jukeshoe]

My original point was that new designers sometimes put all the targets at the very peaks of the hills, or the tees at the bottom of a dip and vice-versa.

Those are the only perfectly flat places, usually. So, it looks "right". However, after a few years, the area around the tee or target will get worn down by a few inches, making it the lowest point in the vicinity, so water will collect there.

Experienced designers will look for ways to move them over a little (or a lot) so the tee or target is at least few inches higher than a nearby spot for water to run off to.

Gotcha! Thank you for clarifying.

It's mostly hackberry, very common around these parts of Texas, although we have cedar and a couple of oaks in there. We have a number of limbs above that are there as an obstacle, and they tend to sprout out and hang down. We get a bit of new stuff on the sides. We've gotten several big clumps of rain lately. Basically no rain most of the time, and then two days of crazy heavy. So the trees sprout out very rapidly. It's not that it gets unplayable, but the window becomes much tighter than we really want it to be.

Oddly enough, a lot of our oaks have been dying, we're not really sure what is causing it. It's happening at many different places around here, not even on just our property. I guess that may be another point, what will this hole look like if key trees die, and what do you do to fix it.

I think a broader lesson to be learned from your example is for the designer to keep in mind not only how the course will grow over time but also to keep the required maintenance commensurate with the funds/time/manpower reasonably foreseeable in the near future.

 

[bikinjack]

One of the things I learned while being involved in course design for the first time is that I way overestimated distances in the woods. What seemed like 300 feet walking through the woods before any cutting turned out to be much less once measured, and also seemed much less after it was cut.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think a broader lesson to be learned from your example is for the designer to keep in mind not only how the course will grow over time but also to keep the required maintenance commensurate with the funds/time/manpower reasonably foreseeable in the near future.

Yes, but there are a lot of factors as to the land, and who will be doing the maintenance. Which goes a bit beyond course design, to the decision to put in a course, especially a private course. Maintenance is a far bigger job than anyone imagines in advance.

Mowing consumes money and time, but if you use lots of areas where a mower can't reach, weedeating is an even bigger chore. Especially grassy, open slopes. Even mowable areas, if they hold water after rains, may have extended periods where they can't be mown.

Shady wooded areas with little underbrush require far less maintenance---except the occasional major project when a tree falls, always in a bad place. More work for installation, but less for maintenance.

Philosophical considerations about herbicides also come in to play. They can save a ton of work, but then there are the environmental concerns.

These mostly apply to private courses, and fall into the "lessons learned" category for me. But Columbia recently added a new course in a public park, and there's a problematic area that the park staff won't maintain, and it's been a burden for club members.

 

[biscoe]

good points already made:
envision worst case scenarios- they will inevitably occur.
judging distance in the woods is a biotch.
see what the property looks like in the wet season as well as the dry.
don't rush.
don't put in concrete tees at first.

i would add:
know your target audience- not every spot is best served by a "championship" course. if you do not own the property you have a responsibility to the property owners to put in a course that best suits their needs.

don't become too attached to any one feature/proposed hole. sometimes you can make the whole course better by foregoing that one spectacular hole. a course should be greater than the sum of its parts- holes need to complement one another.

walk the land until you think you know it backwards and forwards and then walk it some more. there is no substitute for intimate familiarity with the property.

get a decent aerial map to begin with and make a bunch of copies... take notes on these copies.

try not to design/install in the woods during summertime.

when looking at foliage make sure you take into account whether it is deciduous or evergreen- evergreens are better year round obstacles.

 

[Steve West]

I forgot one big one: homemade baskets.

 

[tom12003]

I forgot one big one: homemade baskets.

Not always that bad of mistake. I recall a semi-famous course (Blockhouse/Grange--Sunnyside) that started off with Mike's home-made tire baskets that transitioned to home-made metal baskets (which are still used on the Tiki course) and then to the more traditional DGA Mach-IIIs. All of this over a 6-8 yr period. Few if any complained or thought this was a mistake.

 

[Mando]

I would advise paying attention to the tree species. Cut the short lived, pioneer species and spare the potential old-growth, climax species.

 

[sloppydisc]

good points already made:
envision worst case scenarios- they will inevitably occur.
judging distance in the woods is a biotch.
see what the property looks like in the wet season as well as the dry.
don't rush.
don't put in concrete tees at first.

i would add:
know your target audience- not every spot is best served by a "championship" course. if you do not own the property you have a responsibility to the property owners to put in a course that best suits their needs.

don't become too attached to any one feature/proposed hole. sometimes you can make the whole course better by foregoing that one spectacular hole. a course should be greater than the sum of its parts- holes need to complement one another.

walk the land until you think you know it backwards and forwards and then walk it some more. there is no substitute for intimate familiarity with the property.

get a decent aerial map to begin with and make a bunch of copies... take notes on these copies.

try not to design/install in the woods during summertime.

when looking at foliage make sure you take into account whether it is deciduous or evergreen- evergreens are better year round obstacles.

Put this in a course design sticky. Good stuff. :clap:

 

[biscoe]

Not always that bad of mistake. I recall a semi-famous course (Blockhouse/Grange--Sunnyside) that started off with Mike's home-made tire baskets that transitioned to home-made metal baskets (which are still used on the Tiki course) and then to the more traditional DGA Mach-IIIs. All of this over a 6-8 yr period. Few if any complained or thought this was a mistake.

tom's right- nothing at all wrong with well made homemade baskets.

 

[Steve West]

tom's right- nothing at all wrong with well made homemade baskets.

Fair enough - but most of the "mistakes" listed would be OK if done "well".

All we can do is talk in generalities.

Quick: one course has homemade baskets, the other has PDGA approved baskets. Which one may have made a mistake?

 

[harr0140]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said but I want to follow along in this discussion. TO be considered a designer does a course have to have been installed yet?

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said but I want to follow along in this discussion. TO be considered a designer does a course have to have been installed yet?

To have learned lessons from your mistakes, I think it does.

Unless your mistake was inviting too many other people to design holes with you. Or creating a design that caused dispute with the park or property owner, even before installation.

 

[biscoe]

Unless your mistake was inviting too many other people to design holes with you.

good one- i am not a fan of design by committee- one or two designers is sufficient- then bring in some other folks to offer input once the product is almost complete.

 

[DavidSauls]

Oddly, this would have been one of our mistakes if anyone had taken us up on the offer. My brother and I, when we bought the land that would become Stoney Hill, invited people to come out and help us with ideas. We were surprised that none did, perhaps because they foresaw that we'd ask them to do some of the work, too. In the end it was just us---about 70% Chris---and a few ideas from a 3rd brother that were incorporated.

I can see now what a mess it would be to have different people campaigning for their favorite hole---at the expense of 3 other holes, or the entire routing---or with entirely different ideas of how open or tight or long or short a hole should be.

 

[harr0140]

To have learned lessons from your mistakes, I think it does.

Unless your mistake was inviting too many other people to design holes with you. Or creating a design that caused dispute with the park or property owner, even before installation.

I actually was extremely thorough on my first design even offering up all sorts of suggestion for the school to raise money, who to contact, how to approach the course from an educational standpoint (to help sell it to the teachers) . . . unfortunately they tabled the idea until they see if they can get a grant to raise some of the money. I don't think they realize I could easily help them bring in $3000-4000 if they simply signed my contract for design and supervision of the install.

The course is not dead yet . . . and I am going to do everything I can to make it happen.

The good news is I am providing another proposal to a municipality for design and install of a 9 hole course. I hope I can get this one to completion this season.

 

[Kenny53691]

I am in the process of my first course. Needless to say, the thread has been more helpful than a lot of things that I've read (trust me, I've read a lot about course design). Thank you guys so much for all of your help.

 

[KniceZ]

I"m not a course designer but I wanted to bring up a thought that Biscoe put in my head as he was helping us redesign a local course:

Be mindful of holes that don't cause a seperation in scores. If it's almost impossible to get a birdie and you really have to screw up to get bogie, the hole quickly becomes uninteresting. Example: stay away from roughly 350 to 425 ft open holes.

 

[DavidSauls]

Mike, I guess I should qualify my answer to say that you may be a designer, but not exactly qualified for the O.P.'s purposes (mistakes and lessons learned).

Just trying to keep things on track and not wandering off into the broader subjects of course design philosophies, or criticism of the designs of others (including first-timers). For the sake of the O.P.